Asian Pigeonwings

[lin]

Hi!

Been awhile since I posted here , hope everyone is doing well .
I'd like to ask if anyone has any opinions on the Asian Pigeonwing (Clitoria Ternatea) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitoria_ternatea

I've heard it's a fast growing creeper that does well in my country's climate, so I'm considering planting some in my backyard where my Aldabra roams. The flowers are edible to humans, and they're actually a commonly used ingredient in some local cuisine.

[Jeloz]

Uhh, not sure why this post got posted under lin's account, but it's actually by me

[Nina]

How weird that your post came under Lin's name!

Anyway, it's great to hear from you, and I hope that Muddy is doing well. My tortoises are bored and frustrated indoors, because we've had one of the wettest winters ever, and the temperature hasn't risen much above 12C (although this weekend they are predicting highs of 16C or 17C). My Doris and Dolly wish they were living in Malaysia with Muddy!

As far as I can see, the Asian Pigeonwing (Clitoria ternatea) is not toxic and so would be classified as safe. However, because it is a legume, it can take up nitrogen from the soil, and high levels of nitrogen are not so good for tortoises. So I think it is safe to plant this in your garden, and you could offer small amounts every now and then to provide variety in Muddy's diet, but I don't think I would feed large quantities of it.
It does have a very pretty flower, so should look nice in your garden.

Nina

[Jeloz]

Hi Nina!

Thanks for the quick response, very informative as usual . I think I'll go ahead and plant some in my garden then!

Muddy is doing very well too, thanks for asking. I did end up moving that giant taro plant out of his garden, as he nibbled a little too much of the stem one day and started bubbling at the mouth Probably an allergic reaction of sorts. He's been fine ever since.

It's pretty wet here in Malaysia too actually - it's the monsoon season, although the temperature never falls below 25C so it doesn't really bother my tortoises. What kind of tortoises are Doris and Dolly?

[Nina]

Doris and Dolly are Horsfield tortoises (so a small species, but with large personalities ). We had a couple of hours of sunshine yesterday, and it was 15C so I put them outside for an hour or so, until their shells started to feel cold. Today it's raining and only 11C. I sometimes think that the reason the British Empire mainly consisted of areas that were warm (Africa, India, Australia etc.) is because it allowed the ruling classes to have somewhere to go to escape the climate here!

Doris laid two eggs about two weeks ago (she always lays a couple of eggs about two weeks after waking from hibernation and then another one or two about two weeks after that.) So on Saturday she laid another one (which I hope is it for the year). Horsfields lay large eggs for their size, and I always marvel at how those large eggs fit inside of her and somehow manage to come out. Here's a photo of her next to the egg she laid on Saturday (she weighs about 640g and the egg was 30g). She digs a lovely deep nest, lays the eggs and then covers the nest back up (I have photos of the whole process), but sadly the eggs aren't fertile as she has only ever been kept with another female, so I then go and dig the eggs up when she's not looking

Nina
[attachment=0]Second lot 6.jpg[/attachment]

[Jeloz]

It's rather rainy here right now too, we're on the cusp of the monsoon season. Although the temperature never drops below 25C even with rain, so Muddy does just fine outdoors all year round. I can't imagine dealing with winter weather, it must be stressful for them

Wow! That is a HUGE egg. Looks very healthy and round too. Does she get very stressed in the weeks leading up to laying?

[Nina]

She gains weight fast in the weeks leading up to laying eggs, and on the day or two before she lays she gets irritable and butts Dolly if she comes close to her. Then she spends about half a day or a day sniffing the soil to see if it's suitable for digging, finally she starts digging the nest. She makes two or three little digging motions with her front legs to see if it's suitable and then turns around and digs the nest with her back legs, taking the soil out in little piles on her feet. After she lays the first egg she moves it to the side in the nest and then lays a second one. Then she puts some soil between the two eggs so that they don't touch and then covers the nest up and finally does a little sort of dance on the top where she pats the soil down with her feet so that you can't see that there has been any disturbance to it.

Have attached some photos of her laying a couple of years ago (for some reason they are loading in reverse order, so you should look at them from bottom up, and also the camera makes the nest look more shallow than it is -- it's about 7" or 8" deep).

Yes, cold and rainy weather, which seems to last longer every year (we had one of the wettest winters ever this year) is a great hassle. The fact that they hibernate for three months over the winter helps a bit, but it's still a long time before and after hibernation when it's too cold and miserable for them to go out, so I try and make their indoor enclosure as interesting as possible for them.

Nina
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[Jeloz]

Wow! Great shots. I'm impressed you managed to catch the exact moment she laid the eggs.

How old was she when she first started laying? I'll probably have to prep for that soon, assuming mine are females - I'm still unsure

Putting them into hibernation sounds really scary, I definitely don't envy having to deal with that once a year

[Nina]

Lol, I'm always more stressed than she is when she lays eggs. If I remember correctly she was about 10 or 12 when she started laying eggs, and that was in 2014.

Re hibernation -- yes you're lucky that Redfoots don't hibernate, but for species that do then it's really good for them and they come out of hibernation with renewed energy. In the UK, people who have non-hibernating species like Redfoots, Sulcata and Leopard tortoises spend a fortune on heating a room for them in the winter. They still need temperatures around 30C under a basking light and a cool area of about 20C, and with the big tortoises like Sulcatas and Leopards they need a lot of space too.

Here in the UK it's 6C at the moment (supposed to get up to a balmy 10C today), so mine are just really frustrated that they can't go out. I envy your location and climate!

Nina

[Jeloz]

Haha I can imagine. I've probably got a few more years before I can expect any eggs then - my Redfoot is 4 years old and Muddy is about 7.

The weather here can get pretty unbearable for those who aren't acclimated to it, because the high humidity and heat creates a sauna-like environment everywhere

As far as tortoises are concerned though, the climate is great!
Muddy basically lives in a little hut in my backyard with no additional conditioning required, and the year-long sun makes the grass and plants grow fast enough for him to graze everyday (At least for now, he might out-eat them when he's bigger). I've heard Sulcatas don't do too well though, because the frequent tropical rains can collapse and flood their burrows - which is pretty dangerous for them.