Travelling with a tortoise

[Stevievee]

Hi,

I am collecting my tortoise tomorrow. I have everything ready, sturdy, small plastic box lined with newspaper. The journey is around an hour. I am going to keep the car cool to try help him settle. My question is, once home should I put him straight in the table for a bit, then give him a bath. Or give him a bath first, then put him in the table?
Thanks
Steve

[Nina]

Hmm, not sure it makes that much difference, but I think I might be tempted to put him in the table for a bit, and then the bath -- but I don't think it matters that much.
For the bath, are you using something with high sides, like an old washing up bowl, so that he can't see out? That will minimise any stress.

How exciting! Can't wait to see photos of the dynamic Mr T.

Nina

[Stevievee]

Welcome home Sir Titus!!
Travelled well in the car, kept it nice, cool and quiet and he stayed quiet still in the box.
I am worried about having a battle with his diet. Informed by his old owner his favourite foods are raspberries and strawberries! Afraid he's going to get a shock living here! Any advice on helping him adapt to a more natural diet would be great! Hopefully he just takes to it!?!
He is a 2 year old Horsfield. One other quick question, how often would you bath a 2 year old tortoise?
My wife who has been quite sceptical to say the least about our new pet, fell in love in the first few seconds of meeting him. I knew she would! Ha!

[Nina]

Oh my goodness, isn't he just the cutest thing ever! I'll bet he loves the palatial enclosure that you made for him.

Re food -- yes, a story we hear all too often. Here's a link to our article on how to change a tortoise over to a better diet: https://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/tor ... -new-diet/ Because he is so young and has just moved to a new environment, I wouldn't use the cold turkey method (or at least soften it a bit) on him right away. Try offering him some good food (I found loads of dandelion flowers on a walk today, and tortoises are always attracted to dandelion flowers) and see how it goes. If he absolutely refuses to eat after a couple of days you could try just rubbing a strawberry that has been cut open onto a leaf (so that a teeny bit of juice and the smell of the strawberry is transferred to that leaf), just to get him started and then gradually do less and less. You never know -- Horsfields are incredibly greedy and you might have no problems at all. His shell looks pretty good to me, although I can see that the latest growth ring looks quite wide and you do want him to grow very slowly.

Whatever you do, don't overfeed him though, as that will result in deformation of his shell as he grows. Horsfields are particularly prone to this, as they're sort of genetically programmed to 'eat for England'. Can't remember if I mentioned this in previous posts but in the wild Horsfields live in areas where there are long, cold winters (during which they hibernate/brumate), and long hot summers (during which they aestivate). Field studies have shown that in the wild they are only awake for about three months of the year, and only eating for a small portion of that time, so they need to eat lots in a very limited time slot. In captivity with us we present them with lovely meals every day and they gorge themselves. It's very important, therefore, to monitor their food intake and aim for a weight increase of, on average, no more than 1g - 3g per month (the booklet I just posted to you today will help you to keep records of that).

Because tiny tortoises can dehydrate quickly under lights I would bathe him every day or every other day until he gets a bit bigger. However, if you see him drinking from his water bowl then it can be just every other day. I also wet the leaves/flowers that i feed to mine, so that they get a bit of water that way (and it will also help the calcium and vitamin D3 powder that you give him to stick to the leaves and not be wasted.

I can't remember -- do you have a care sheet for Horsfields? I can post a link to one if you want it.

So glad your wife has fallen victim to Sir Titus Salt's charms -- lol, I told you she would!

Nina

[Stevievee]

Thanks for the info as always Nina.
He has eaten today. Small amount of dandelion leaves, forget-me-not foliage and a viola flower, so I am fairly positive about him taking the change well.
I don't trust my hanging thermometer (cheap on Amazon) so have ordered a more expensive one with good reviews. Coming tomorrow.
I will give him chance to settle and then bathe him tomorrow, maybe weigh him too.
He has been quite active, checking out his new surroundings.
I have read the factsheet and could probably recite it back to you word for word! Ha
Thank you for posting out the record book too.
Keeping me fit, running up and down the stairs to check on him all the time. I'm hooked already!

[Stevievee]

Hi, only me again! Sir Titus slept under one of the houses, buried himself in the substrate. His light is timed to come on at 7am, but it's now 9 and he still isn't up. The bed he chose is near the lamp, so he should know it's 'day time'. I have moved him under the lamp twice, but he just takes himself back to bed after a minute or so. His head is also quite dirty now from burrowing and I'm worried about it going in his eyes!

[Nina]

H Steve,

Well, he's just settling in, and young tortoises do sleep quite a bit, so I wouldn't worry. Try moving him under the lamp just one more time and offering him some food at the same time and see if he's interested.

You could give him a nice warm bath today and see if that helps too. I wouldn't worry too much about substrate getting in his eyes -- this is what they do in the wild and he should be fine, but you could maybe give him a nice warm bath, as they often dip their whole head in the water and that would wash out any subsrate that was on his face near his eyes.

Also, you could try moving that bed further away from the light, so that when the light comes on in the morning he has to walk from the bed to the light in order to warm up.

It's early days, so don't get stressed, but please keep us posted on how things are working out.

Nina

[Stevievee]

Thanks Nina. Had a move around, so his basking spot under the lamp doesn't have a hide near it.
I'll give him a bath later, see if that perks him up a bit.

[Stevievee]

Had a bath and weighed him. He's 76g.

[Nina]

That's about right for two years and a bit. Your table looks great, and I hope that Titus appreciates the fforts you've gone to. Has he nibbled anything today?

Nina

Stevievee wrote:
> Had a bath and weighed him. He's 76g.

[Stevievee]

Yes, he's eaten today and did liven up after his bath. He's now pottering about quite happily.
I now have a new temp probe on a stick into the centre of the light. The light is 11" off the substrate but only reading 24c? I know there is a limit to how low an mvb bulb can be from the floor of the table. It's a 100w Arcadia heat/light/UV bulb. I'm worried about having it any lower than what it is set at at the moment.

[Nina]

Hmm, that's difficult. First of all is your thermometer a max/min one? If so then check that the temperature that is showing isn't the maximum or minimum one -- I know that sounds stupid but I've had that happen to me, where I've checked the max temperature and then haven't clicked to get it back to reading normally.

You are right in saying that a new mvb will have a minimm height, and it should say on the box (or on their website) what this is, but I can't imagine that it would be recommended to have it lower than than 11". I'm surprised that with a 100W bulb you're only getting 24C, but if that is what it is then perhaps you need a bit more heat in the table. What temperature is it at the cooler end?

I have two lamps in my table (but that's because it's 7' long), but I don't have any light source on the upper level, so I use one of those bendy desk lamps that I can hook over the side and train down into the table. They will only take a 40W bulb (if you can get the old style bulbs, i.e. not low energy), and I wonder if you could use something like that just to bring the heat level up a bit. Or do you have a way of hanging another lamp into the table from above, with an ordinary household spotlight (again, difficult to get nowadays as most bulbs are low wattage). I think a 60W bulb would be plenty, and as the weather warms up, the room Titus is in will be warmer and the table will be warmer too, so you won't need that.

I used to have an mvb bulb and they are really good, but for a long time now I've used an ordinary reptile bulb or household bulb or PAR, along with a UVB fluorescent tube, because it does mean that I can lower my heat source as much as I want. In summer, when it's much warmer, it also means that I can raise my bulb up high, without worrying that the UVB source has been moved further away. Having said that, it's a nuisance having multiple sources of light and heat, with all the wires, etc. that go with that.

I'm so glad that he has eaten and is exploring his new kingdom!

Nina

[Stevievee]

I've just spent some more of my well earned money and going for a strip UV light with separate basking light. Should have just done that in the first place... I'll even allow you to say 'I told you so' haha

Anyway, problem will be solved tomorrow!

Cooler end is a nice 20c.

As you said in an earlier post, he'd better appreciate it!!

Does the separate UV light stay on all day?

[Nina]

Hi Steve,

Which one did you get (they're not all the same)? The best are the T5 HO (high output) 12% tubes. How long was it? I would always get as long a one as possible so that it covers a lot of your table. I have a 4' one in my 7' table. You also, of course need the starter unit to go with it. Don't get one of the small UVB ones that are sort of coiled (like a low energy bulb). The other thing you need is a clip on reflector. This will protect your eyes from the harmful UVB rays and also direct more of the rays down into the table, for the tortoise. They aren't dear and look like this: https://www.reptiles.swelluk.com/arcadia-t5-reflectors You just need the right length for your tube, and they clip straight onto it.

You haven't really wasted your mvb (and I know how expensive they are!), because when it gets warmer you can use that for heat/light/uvb and you won't need to use the strip light. That will mean that your stip light will last longer too. UVB bulbs of any type only last between 18 months to 2 years, depending on hours of usage. This is because the UVB deposits a coatingon the inside of the glass tube, and eventually although the light still gets through, the UVB doesn't. You can't really tell when this happens (unless you have a UVB meter), so most people just change their UVB source every two years.

Nina

[Stevievee]

It's this one, it has a 22" bulb.
Comes as a full kit

[Nina]

Perfect!

Nina

[Stevievee]

Bought a laser thermometer today. Under the lamp at shell height reading 35c... My other thermometer still read 24c on a wire under the heat source (all settings as they should be). Just something for people to be aware of. Thermometer gun now a very useful tool in my arsenal!

Set up going to be much better with separate UV and heat.

Lucky I managed to buy him for £60, he's going to bankrupt me otherwise!

Record book arrived today. Thanks Nina.

[Stevievee]

[attachment=0]PXL_20240323_182107833.jpg[/attachment]

New and improved bath! Sir Titus living his best life!
Still having to wake him up in a morning, but have now moved his hide away from the 'warm' side to try encourage him to find the basking spot in a morning to warm up!
He hasn't had many poos, but is eating okay, so sure it'll have to come out at some point!
Still bathing daily.
Had a strange experience at a 'specialist' reptile shop, saying he SHOULD be in a viv, and the temps should never drop below 20c even at night. He said tortoise tables are an American thing and not suited to the UK. I was pleasant, but made a quick exit!

[Nina]

That looks great, Steve!

Shame about the reptile shop -- but it's a common experience that people have. I could send you links to authoritative articles that you could show to him, explaining why vivariums are very bad environments for tortoises and why tortoise tables are good, like this from The Tortoise Trust, which is the most authoritative UK tortoises organixation: https://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/vivarium.htm (scroll down to the section on 'vivarium tanks), and this https://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/vivarium.htm , but it probably won't do any good as many pet shops are either motivated by the profit in selling vivariums or have just been misinformed, and they are used to dealing with snakes and lizards which can do well in a vivarium.

That is a lovely photo of Sir Titus in is bath. He is really a perfectly shaped Horsfield. By the way, do you know why Horsfield tortoises are nearly round in shape and other tortoises are more oval in shape? It's because they are a burrowing species and if they dig a tunnel which is just as wide as they are, then when they reach the end, because they are more circular in shape they can easily turn round and come back out, whereas if they were more oval they would have difficulty turning around because the tunnel is just as wide as they are, but they are longer than they are wide (lol, if you see what I mean).

Nina