NEWBIE ADVICE

Post your pictures and any questions here of European tortoises e.g. Ibera Spur Thigh, Ibera Graeca, Marginated, Hermanns, Kleinmanni and we include the Horsfield tortoise. Also, do add pictures of Mediterranean tortoises you have seen in the wild.
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Mr_Leeman
Posts: 12
Joined: 17 Nov 2020, 14:57

NEWBIE ADVICE

Post by Mr_Leeman » 20 Nov 2020, 12:55

Hi All, new to to the forum and looking for some advice. We have a young Horsfield called Jack(ie) and we're not 100% on age but were advised 8 months when we got him 3 months ago, so on that he's around 11 months. He's currently 6.5cm in length and weight is a bit up and down, currently 43grams - the same as the day we got him.

I plan on doing a more detailed post with images etc at a later point - but very quickly looking for some guidance.

Basically, he's not ever been particularly active and spends 99% of the time asleep, pretty much ignores food and obviously doesn't poo or urinate often.
My suspicion is the temps are off and he maybe be trying to hibernate, and possibly trying to counter this we've gone too hot and aestivation is now happening. Which has stunted his appetite. I'd say he eats 5 mouthfuls tops, every other day or so. And will poo 3-4 times a week and I only witness urination about once a week. The change in behaviour from when we had him, coincided with the change in light and temperature outside, more evidence he's trying to do what's natural for him.

Temperature
I've monitored temps since we've had him and I've gone from using a small stick on thermometer, to a point and click - to now using a probe. I'm finding lots of contradictory info regarding temperature. Some places say basking of 30, 18-20 in cool end. Yet I got scolded on another forum for this, and told it was way too cold and 36 should be basking temp for a hatchling.

Currently my temp under the lamp at shell height is 34.7 and at night it's around 15 where he sleeps. We have to put him under the lamp as he won't go himself, he has 30/45 mins there and then we bath him for 20mins, in the enclosure half under the lamp. We were only bathing previously for 10mins outside of the enclosure, and the water wouldn't stay warm for long. Not sure if that had an impact either. His cool end is 18-20, varies slightly. I'd say he spends most of his time in the 20ish area.
I've got a ceramic bulb to try out at night, as I'm not sure if it might be getting a bit too cold.

So, questions are - what's your opinion? Too hot or too cold, bit of both? Also, what's best at night?

Food/eating habits
He's always been a fussy eater, which surprises me when I read about what gannets they tend be. We offer mixed leafy green leaves made up generally of weeds/plants from the garden and occasionally supermarket bought salad leaves, like lambs’ lettuce, frisee, radicchio and watercress.

Examples of what we offer - Dandelion, Nipplewort, Bellflower (leaf and flower), plantain, Sow thistle... there are others, but most have disappeared now with the time of year. Nothing stands out as a favourite. Sometimes he seems to like one over another, then the opposite another day (when he does eat). I am currently only offering 1 kind of leaf per day, to see if there is a particular fancy and try that for a bit to get his appetite up - but as of yet he's a bit 'meh' to it all.

Does he eat, yes - so I'm not terribly worried. Does he eat often and much, no - so I am wary of this. I'd say he's a bit random when it comes to eating. Some days he will ignore outright, others he'll take a nibble then ignore and sometimes he actually will eat a larger amount. There have been occasions he's walked off, then when we put him back, he actually eats. He also sometimes will go to eat and struggle to get a hold of anything and then give up and wander off. It maybe this is normal behaviour, but the fact his weight is all over the place is what's mainly the concern. On a side note we sprinkle calcium/vitamins on his food daily and I sometimes wonder if he smells that and it puts him off. He also sometimes will have a go at non-food items, like bark in the enclosure or my thumb nail.lol

Questions are... When do you recommend feeding? Is it normal to have off days and give up?

Weight
We weigh him weekly and whilst he's not seemingly 100% I shall continue to do so. He was 43 grams on arrival, and slowly went up to 52 grams (which seemed high), then came down to 44, back up to 50 and now down to 43 again. He's a proper yoyo dieter. He's definitely eating less this last few weeks than prior, so that would explain the fall. If my understanding is correct, we should be looking to see 3-9 grams of growth by now.

I guess it's normal for weight to be a bit up and down, but should obviously be on the up overall. Which I shall plot onto a graph to see if there is a trend line. I suspect it'd be flat.

Overall health
He seems good actually. He walks around fine and does change his location in the enclosure throughout the day, he has 3 spots he seems to like. His eyes are nice and black, no gunk or tears. His nose is always dry and no bubbles. His skin looks ok and his shell looks ok. So again, I'm not panicking yet. I have started to mist his topsoil daily now, as I noticed him rubbing his eyes - this fixed that.

I thought I'd mentioned his enclosure is a tabletop, 3ft by 2ft roughly, with a 100w combination bulb suspended in far-right back corner (I'll do pics in another post). We use sterilised topsoil and he has 4 hides, 2 water dishes and eats off slate.

I may be worrying over nothing but would greatly appreciate any input and advice you can offer.

Thanks in advance,
Lee

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lin
Posts: 848
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:27

Re: NEWBIE ADVICE

Post by lin » 20 Nov 2020, 15:32

Hi Lee, welcome and congratulations on your new baby.
You really have done your research well, right down to spelling Horsfield correct, that does not happen very often :lol:

I think it will be easier if I answer your post between your questions.




Mr_Leeman wrote:
> Hi All, new to to the forum and looking for some advice. We have a young
> Horsfield called Jack(ie) and we're not 100% on age but were advised 8
> months when we got him 3 months ago, so on that he's around 11 months. He's
> currently 6.5cm in length and weight is a bit up and down, currently
> 43grams - the same as the day we got him.
>
> I plan on doing a more detailed post with images etc at a later point - but
> very quickly looking for some guidance.
>
> Basically, he's not ever been particularly active and spends 99% of the
> time asleep, pretty much ignores food and obviously doesn't poo or urinate
> often.
> My suspicion is the temps are off and he maybe be trying to hibernate, and
> possibly trying to counter this we've gone too hot and aestivation is now
> happening. Which has stunted his appetite. I'd say he eats 5 mouthfuls
> tops, every other day or so. And will poo 3-4 times a week and I only
> witness urination about once a week. The change in behaviour from when we
> had him, coincided with the change in light and temperature outside, more
> evidence he's trying to do what's natural for him.

You are probably right there Lee. Hibernation has a strong pull for the babies and its what your one is going through. As you have seen the poo's and wee's are going to be much less as it isn't eating much. To combat this we try and replicate the conditions of the natural habitat and that would be bright light, sunshine and warm ambient temps. Do you have a photo of the setup you are using as it will give us some ideas and if necessary allow us to see if there are any tweaks that can be done.



> Temperature
> I've monitored temps since we've had him and I've gone from using a small
> stick on thermometer, to a point and click - to now using a probe. I'm
> finding lots of contradictory info regarding temperature. Some places say
> basking of 30, 18-20 in cool end. Yet I got scolded on another forum for
> this, and told it was way too cold and 36 should be basking temp for a
> hatchling.

Wow, I don't know who would have advised 36°C for basking temps and maybe at 34/35°C is the reason he wont go under it. I would advise temps like you say, hot end 30°C but a degree above wouldnt hurt. Your cool end seems fine. They only really bask when they eat as it gives them the correct temps to digest the food. A hatchling in the wild will be in the same temps as the old tortoises and if that is above 34°C they will have the adequate space and areas to dig to find the perfect temps they need.

>
> Currently my temp under the lamp at shell height is 34.7 and at night it's
> around 15 where he sleeps. We have to put him under the lamp as he won't go
> himself, he has 30/45 mins there and then we bath him for 20mins, in the
> enclosure half under the lamp. We were only bathing previously for 10mins
> outside of the enclosure, and the water wouldn't stay warm for long. Not
> sure if that had an impact either. His cool end is 18-20, varies slightly.
> I'd say he spends most of his time in the 20ish area.
> I've got a ceramic bulb to try out at night, as I'm not sure if it might be
> getting a bit too cold.

Providing night temps do not drop below 13°C it will be fine so it could be a good idea if you get a min/max thermomiter to see your night temps.
>
> So, questions are - what's your opinion? Too hot or too cold, bit of both?
> Also, what's best at night?


>
> Food/eating habits
> He's always been a fussy eater, which surprises me when I read about what
> gannets they tend be. We offer mixed leafy green leaves made up generally
> of weeds/plants from the garden and occasionally supermarket bought salad
> leaves, like lambs’ lettuce, frisee, radicchio and watercress.

I agree, they are gannets but it seems tortoises do like to test our boundrys. Once into the bad habits they will gradually drop the good foods in favour of the shop bought things. A bit like a kiddy having to choose between a plate of brussel sprouts or a Macdonalds. We do have a diet changing page here that might be of help. https://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/tor ... -new-diet/ but as always its best to try and go natural and not bought.

>
> Examples of what we offer - Dandelion, Nipplewort, Bellflower (leaf and
> flower), plantain, Sow thistle... there are others, but most have
> disappeared now with the time of year. Nothing stands out as a favourite.
> Sometimes he seems to like one over another, then the opposite another day
> (when he does eat). I am currently only offering 1 kind of leaf per day, to
> see if there is a particular fancy and try that for a bit to get his
> appetite up - but as of yet he's a bit 'meh' to it all.

Its the wind dwon instinct that has kicked in and once we can get him to think summers here he will be like that. He is eating a little and your bathing him too, so thats all good.

>
> Does he eat, yes - so I'm not terribly worried. Does he eat often and much,
> no - so I am wary of this. I'd say he's a bit random when it comes to
> eating. Some days he will ignore outright, others he'll take a nibble then
> ignore and sometimes he actually will eat a larger amount. There have been
> occasions he's walked off, then when we put him back, he actually eats. He
> also sometimes will go to eat and struggle to get a hold of anything and
> then give up and wander off. It maybe this is normal behaviour, but the
> fact his weight is all over the place is what's mainly the concern. On a
> side note we sprinkle calcium/vitamins on his food daily and I sometimes
> wonder if he smells that and it puts him off. He also sometimes will have a
> go at non-food items, like bark in the enclosure or my thumb nail.lol
>
> Questions are... When do you recommend feeding? Is it normal to have off
> days and give up?

Covered this Lee.

>
> Weight
> We weigh him weekly and whilst he's not seemingly 100% I shall continue to
> do so. He was 43 grams on arrival, and slowly went up to 52 grams (which
> seemed high), then came down to 44, back up to 50 and now down to 43 again.
> He's a proper yoyo dieter. He's definitely eating less this last few weeks
> than prior, so that would explain the fall. If my understanding is correct,
> we should be looking to see 3-9 grams of growth by now.
>
> I guess it's normal for weight to be a bit up and down, but should
> obviously be on the up overall. Which I shall plot onto a graph to see if
> there is a trend line. I suspect it'd be flat.

As you say the weight gain shouldnt be much. In a hatchling, yes about 2-4g a month but right now it will fluctuate and as long as he isnt loosing weight continuously, its fine.


>
> Overall health
> He seems good actually. He walks around fine and does change his location
> in the enclosure throughout the day, he has 3 spots he seems to like. His
> eyes are nice and black, no gunk or tears. His nose is always dry and no
> bubbles. His skin looks ok and his shell looks ok. So again, I'm not
> panicking yet. I have started to mist his topsoil daily now, as I noticed
> him rubbing his eyes - this fixed that.

Thats great.

>
> I thought I'd mentioned his enclosure is a tabletop, 3ft by 2ft roughly,
> with a 100w combination bulb suspended in far-right back corner (I'll do
> pics in another post). We use sterilised topsoil and he has 4 hides, 2
> water dishes and eats off slate.

I (and many others) have noticed a marked difference between using a combi bulb and a strip UVB and seperate heat bulb. These seem to really give of the best overall light, the most coverage of UVB and coupled with a heat spot I really do think you would see a change. maybe when you need to renew yours you could think ablut investing in one -- https://www.reptiles.swelluk.com/arcadi ... woQAvD_BwE

I do hope this has helped Lee, and I cant wait to find out your little ones name and see a photo.
If theres anything else we can do then just give us a shout.

Lin


>
> I may be worrying over nothing but would greatly appreciate any input and
> advice you can offer.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Lee

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Nina
Posts: 1525
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:22

Re: NEWBIE ADVICE

Post by Nina » 20 Nov 2020, 15:41

Hi Lee, and welcome to The Tortoise Table! And congratulations too on acquiring your little Horsfield. I like the flexibility of Jack(ie), as you won't be able to tell what sex he/she is for a couple of years -- so you've got all bases covered ;) .

First of all, it sounds to me like you've got a good set-up for him, and thank goodness you've got a table and not a vivarium. It sounds like your table is well set up and you've got all the right equipment. It also sounds like he is about the right weight for his age -- possibly a bit under but nothing to worry about. When you weigh a tortoise -- like before or after a meal, or before or after a bath or poo, it can make a big difference in weight (it's amazing how much a poo can weigh), so try to weigh under roughly the same circumstances -- like just after a bath, when he might have taken on some water or had a wee or a poo. But basically he sounds healthy and fine, although I would have expected him to put on more weight over the months he has been with you.

Regarding temperature -- I would say it's a little warm in the daytime. We usually aim for 30C directly under the lamp at the height of his shell, and 20C at the cooler end, and the temperature should drop at night, but for a little one then probably not much below about 14C or 15C. 36C is way too high for a hatchling in my opinion, as he will dehydrate very quickly in those temperatures. However, he isn't trapped in 34.7C heat under his lamp, because he can wander away to the cooler end, so it's not actually dangerous at the moment (but I would aim for about 30C). Re the night time, if the temperature drops below about 14 then I think the ceramic heat emitter might be a good idea -- and you can attach it to a thermostat so that it will go on automatically when the temperature drops to a certain level.

Your bathing regime sounds good, and if he is pooing two or three times a week then it sounds like he is probably eating a reasonable amount (what goes in, comes out, etc.). Are you sure he is only weeing once a week -- could he be weeing and then it dries up so that you don't notice (they don't always produce urates with a wee)?

His lethargy and lack of appetite. It is so difficult to say what might be the cause of this, because at this time of year so many factors come into play (hibernation, etc.. Young tortoises do sleep a lot, but Horsfields have a particularly strong hibernation instinct and I expect that is what he is trying to do. In their natural habitat Horsfields live in areas that have long cold winters (during which they hibernate) and long hot summers (during which the aestivate), and scientific observations in the wild say that they are only awake for about three months a year and only eating for about 20 hours during that period. So Horsfields are sort of programmed to 'eat for England', and one of the most common problems is over eating and too rapid weight gain, which can lead to deformed shells -- so at least you don't have that problem.

If he does want to hibernate, you might struggle a bit to keep him awake and lively. I think I would wake him up in the morning and put him under his lamp -- and if he goes straight back to his sleeping space, get him out again and maybe even one more time, and eventually you might be able to break that hibernation instinct. You want to trick him into thinking that it is a bright summer day, so as much light (without raising the temperature too much) as you can provide is good. I certainly wouldn't hibernate him this year, as you haven't had him for a year yet, and he might be a tiny bit underweight. The fact that he is still eating at all is a good sign. Here is a link to our article on overwintering: https://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/tor ... 7fcmVCnwZY

Re feeding. The plants you are offering him are good. If you can find something that he really likes then compose a meal of mostly that thing, but cut it up into pieces and thoroughly wet it (I wet all my food anyway, as it gets some water into them and also it helps the calcium powder to stick to the leaves). Then take some of the new food that you want to introduce and cut that up into very tiny pieces and sprinkle a small amount of it onto the stuff he likes. It will stick to it because it's wet and when he goes for the food he likes, he will inadvertently get some of the new stuff. Then you gradually add more of the new material. Another trick -- most tortoises love cucumber. It doesn't have huge amounts of nutrients, but it's good for hydration. To entice him to eat something, first establish that he likes cucumber (try hand feeding him a paper thin slice of peeled cucumber). If he likes that, then you can either grate a bit of cucumber onto his food, or just squeeze some cucumber juice onto his food and that might persuade him to try it.

What calcium and vitamins are you sprinkling on his food? Nutrobal is the best for calcium and vitamin D3, but many tortoises don't like it. You can disguise it though, and you can also offer just plain calcium carbonate powder or limestone flour (it's just ground limestone) on alternate days with the Nutrobal if that is what he doesn't like. I think some tortoises do have off days -- but for some reason mine don't ever seem to lose their appetite and I have to be careful about over-feeding. Young tortoises do test out things by tryng to eat them -- like their substrate, for example, and they are especially fond of small white stones (which you will see when you get him outdoors next year).

Regarding your substrate -- topsoil is fine, but in the wlld tortoises tend to live on quite a sandy soil, and so most of us mix the topsoil with children's play sand (you can usually buy bags in garden centres, Homebase, etc.) -- and you can mix it at any quantity up to about 50% (I prefer 30% - 40% sand in the mixture). And yes, do spray it every day or two to keep it from getting dusty.

So overall, I think he should have put on some weight since you got him, but he does seem healthy and if you can encourage him to eat a bit more that should do the trick.

You probably already have a care sheet for Horsfields, but in case you don't here is a link to one: https://www.tortoise-protection-group.o ... 014New.pdf

So sorry to have gone on at such length, but I hope that some of the information helps, and I'm looking forward to seeing photos of Jack(ie) and his set-up.

Nina

Mr_Leeman
Posts: 12
Joined: 17 Nov 2020, 14:57

Re: NEWBIE ADVICE

Post by Mr_Leeman » 22 Nov 2020, 17:04

Thanks Lin & Nina for you detailed responses and pleasant welcome!

Spelling isn't my strong point, so pleased about that!

Here is an image of the set-up or Jacksonville, and I managed to get a shot of Jack(ie) having a munch yesterday. He actually ate a reasonable amount (for him). But today ate only 1 mouthful or so… he's so very unpredictable.

[attachment=0]IMG_0927.jpg[/attachment]

I have done a slight change to layout and brought the basking light down the left end and made the window/radiator the new cool end as there is more natural light and warmth there than the other side. The window is a decent height, so he actually gets a nice amount of natural light, but never direct sunlight. The basking area is now 30, and the coolest spot is 18.7. I've measured all over so pretty happy now with the temperatures.

Lin, your suggestion of extra light is a good one, as it is a little dull in the cool end - do you think just an extra light down the cold end might help? Or would it have to be a UVB?

I have a min/max thermometer and its currently set-up to make sure the night temps stay about 17. Although the room has yet to go colder than that.

Nina, we do try and weigh him at the same time each week - but there will undoubtedly have been some variation here and there. He poo'd right before his weighing this weekend, so he measured slightly less than last week.

You're correct, I can't be sure how often he urinates as he could very well be doing it during the day. I do sometimes see darker patches and wonder.

Food-wise I'm doing exactly as you suggest, wet with a light sprinkle of Nutrobal. He actually came over whilst I put his leaves out today, very unusual and ate a bit before I'd finished, but that was all he ate. Before he retreated to shade. I got him out a further 2 more times and tried offering something new, but to no avail. I'm going to stick at it with the new layout and temps - hopefully that'll sort him out.

Interestingly I tried the cucumber idea before, and it didn't work. But good suggestion.

I like your sand suggestion, what is the benefit of that? More natural?

Anyway - thank you both, there are some definite takeaways from you both and I will keep you posted on how he gets on.

I'm also going to do a weed post, as I've got a few in the garden I can't figure out - if you can assist of course.
Attachments
IMG_0927.jpg
Jacksonville

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Nina
Posts: 1525
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:22

Re: NEWBIE ADVICE

Post by Nina » 22 Nov 2020, 18:04

Hi Lee,

First of all, I hope you didn't feel bombarded with information from Lin and me -- it turns out we were writing at about the same time, unaware that the other was writing as well (lol, but at least we were 'singing from the same hymn sheet' and didn't contradict each other!).

Well, I must say you have a very nice set-up for Jack(ie), and I love the fact that it is called Jacksonville! There is lots of variety there, and objects to walk over, around and under, so that's perfect. Tortoises get really bored if they can see from one end of their enclosure to the other without interruption, but you have made his interesting and stimulating.

It sounds like you've got perfect temperatures now, so hopefully Jack(ie) will thrive. It's good that he ate a bit today. Is he as fussy if there isn't Nutrobal sprinkled on his food? I'm wondering if that is part of the problem, as many tortoises just don't like the taste of Nutrobal. Try leaving it off his food for a couple of days and see if there is any difference. If he eats more readily without Nutrobal then I would maybe try one of the other supplements like Reptavite, or even just pure calcium carbonate powder -- you can buy food grade calcium carbonate powder on the internet, or it is sold as Limestone Flour at stores that sell horse supplies, etc. That will get the calcium into him. He won't have the added vitamin D (which enables him to absorb that calcium), but a good UVB light will provide that, although in addition to UVB (which causes the skin on the tortoise to produce vitamin D), some extra vitamin D is advised. My tortoises hate Nutrobal and I have to trick them into eating it (I wet something they like, put Nutrobal on it and then turn it upside down and hand feed it and for some reason they will take it that way (I think upside down hides the smell and that is what they don't like). They do say that keeping the Nutrobal in the fridge can help a bit in reducing the smell, but I don't know if that is true.

The sand does make it a more natural substrate for them. It isn't essential, and if you prefer topsoil on its own that is fine. Those dark patches you see are almost certainly wee. If you try and remove them with a spoon that bit of soil should just hold together and come out easily, so nice for spot cleaning.

We're more than happy to look at your weeds, so just send photos, but the best ones to send are photos of the plant growing in situ (not plucked and laid on a table), so that we can see the way the leaves and stem relate to each other and the way it comes out of the ground, plus any close-ups of leaves, flowers and seed heads if present. You can also buy seed mixtures especially for tortoises, and that is very handy in the winter when there is less outdoors.

Cheers,
Nina

Mr_Leeman
Posts: 12
Joined: 17 Nov 2020, 14:57

Re: NEWBIE ADVICE

Post by Mr_Leeman » 22 Nov 2020, 18:23

Thanks Nina, not bombarded at all - I like data!

I have wondered if that's what puts him off, as he sniffs and sometimes recoils. However today I hadn't had chance to put any in before he came over and he gave up before I put any on. So really not sure. Worth a test and do i do have some standard calcium powder too, so I can experiemnt with that idea. I'll try just getting on the underside as well. That's a good idea.

I'll pop weeds up shortly - there are a few! I've gone weed blind looking at the database.

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lin
Posts: 848
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:27

Re: NEWBIE ADVICE

Post by lin » 22 Nov 2020, 22:19

Hi Lee.
That is a lovely enclosure and your adjustments do make it very interesting for Jack'ie'. This is going to be one spoiled tortoise.

Regarding the light. You could try just adding a standard desk or household spot light in the darker area for now and when you need to change your combi, or if the spot didnt help, I would go for one of these. https://www.reptiles.swelluk.com/arcadi ... desert-12/
If they are placed the length of the open part of the enclosure you will find it makes a big difference to the tortoises behaviour and they do enjoy it being under the UVB spectrum given off from these lights.

Nina and I have both gone through your list of plants photos (and having recovered from weed blindness) and have identified most of them. I will start on the other thread but if I crash again I will leave it till tomorrow.

Lin

>
> Lin, your suggestion of extra light is a good one, as it is a little dull
> in the cool end - do you think just an extra light down the cold end might
> help? Or would it have to be a UVB?
>

Mr_Leeman
Posts: 12
Joined: 17 Nov 2020, 14:57

Re: NEWBIE ADVICE

Post by Mr_Leeman » 23 Nov 2020, 14:37

Thanks Lin, I'll see how he gets on. Today is a cold one and the secodnary ceramic heating lamp is on. So glad I got that.

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lin
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Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:27

Re: NEWBIE ADVICE

Post by lin » 23 Nov 2020, 16:17

Keep us posted Lee.

We are meant to get a couple of better days but not in the least hot, and in a couple of days time its going to drop. :cry:

Lin

Mr_Leeman
Posts: 12
Joined: 17 Nov 2020, 14:57

Re: NEWBIE ADVICE

Post by Mr_Leeman » 30 Nov 2020, 14:50

Hi Lin/NIna

Just thought I'd drop a quick update.

I spent last week monitoring and making micro ajustments here and there. Tried with and without calcium and it made no difference. And over all not much changed in terms of behavior.

However, as of Friday we've had 4 days straight of eating, and yesterday in particluar he lived up to the reputation and had a feast. He's just eaten again today, a lesser amount but still a happy amount. He's still very sleepy but has spent a bit more time out lately, basking a bit longer.

So, not wanting to count my chickens just yet... but things as they stand are looking up and we may have broken the cycle.

I've kept offering the same mix of weeds. The only addition on one day was a tiny amount of finely grated carrot - which he seemed to really take a fancy to. Alhtough I will only be offering this on rare occassions, for some vitimin boost, mixed in with everything esle.

So, big thanks for the ideas - we shall keep montioring and see how he goes.

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lin
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Re: NEWBIE ADVICE

Post by lin » 30 Nov 2020, 18:26

Hi Lee.
thanks so much for the update and its so good to hear that Jacj'ie has made a start on the eating. As you say he might have got through the spell he was going through and your seeing the new 'him' so to speak and if he starts oversleeping again just get him up, inder the heat a few times a day and he should start to remember what the heat is for. Well done for your perceverance.

Lin

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