Leaving Tortoises Alone

Post your pictures and any questions here of European tortoises e.g. Ibera Spur Thigh, Ibera Graeca, Marginated, Hermanns, Kleinmanni and we include the Horsfield tortoise. Also, do add pictures of Mediterranean tortoises you have seen in the wild.
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Ladybird_mt
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Joined: 29 Sep 2020, 08:19

Leaving Tortoises Alone

Post by Ladybird_mt » 02 Aug 2022, 05:17

Hello again, I’m back for some help which I’ve always found here for my two Egyptian tortoises, Albert and Elliot.

I haven’t been on a holiday for some years now and I’m not too fussed about it, but my partner is complaining and rightly so, as he thinks he comes second to my pets! Apart from my tortoises I have a cat and dog. I just don’t trust anyone to look after them. I would probably take Oscar and Jake with me abroad on a plane though but I’m not sure what to do with my tortoises.

Albert and Eliot are living outdoors 24/7 now due to the hot weather so I was wondering whether they would be ok for around 10 days. They are aestivating and never appear. However, every couple of days, I pick them up from wherever they are and feed them. I provide water everyday all through the year but they never touch it so I sprinkle a lot of it over their food and give them not-too-frequent baths. They’re not too keen on that either!

So, what do you think? Thank you for any advice.

Anne Marie

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Nina
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Re: Leaving Tortoises Alone

Post by Nina » 02 Aug 2022, 08:11

Hi Anne Marie,

It sounds to me like you are doing everything right regarding the tortoises being outdoors now (I wet the food I give mine as well as one of them seems to never drink from the bowl or in the bath, while the other is quite happy to do so), and I'll bet they are loving the fresh air and sunshine (even if they are aestivating a lot).

Regarding going away -- how long would it be for? I think my main worry is if we had a sudden downpour/thunderstorm -- is there any way that a very heavy rain could cause a small, temporary flood in their outdoor enclosure, or is it really well drained? I think it's unlikely, but just not sure how your outside area is constructed. Is there a neighbour who could pop in and have a look at them every now and then while you're away? Are there any rats or foxes in the area? I'm just being over cautious here, and as they seem to have done well outside they will probably continue to do so while you're away.

Nina

Ladybird_mt
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Re: Leaving Tortoises Alone

Post by Ladybird_mt » 02 Aug 2022, 08:30

Hello again, Nina!

Thanks for your reply. We live in Malta, perhaps we might have one downpour during summer but that’s it, and it’s possible to know roughly when that would happen. The tortoises live in a very small garden, covered in soil, attached to a small yard. We don’t have foxes and I’ve never seen rats, of course there’s a drain but we keep it well covered. The outdoor section is surrounded by an 11-foot smooth stone wall.

I’m rather concerned about them not drinking, I would leave them water but it would probably dry out quickly since the temperatures have been in the mid-high 30s. Wouldn’t they get dehydrated? We would probably be away 7-10 days, much longer than that, say a month, I’d take them with me. Unfortunately I don’t really know the neighbours that much and like I said, I don’t trust anyone with my pets, everyone’s busy with their families and work.

Thanks again, Nina!

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Nina
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Re: Leaving Tortoises Alone

Post by Nina » 02 Aug 2022, 10:14

Hi Anne Marie,

I forgot that you live in Malta. It sounds like you have an excellent escape-proof enclosure, and I think they will probably be fine, and maybe have two or three water dishes about -- that will increase the humidity a bit -- and preferably in as shady a spot as possible. You're right that it will evaporate fairly quickly, but given that they are Egyptian tortoises they ought to be able to handle drought (although they are also of course small and will therefore dry out a bit more quickly than a larger tortoise).

I would gvie them a good long bath on the morning before you go (15 - 20 minutes in a container that they can't see out of), and that should build up their reserves. It's probably unnecesary, but if you had a friend who could come over once while you're away, and just fill up the water dishes, that would be nice, but it's probably not essential. I just looked up the ten day forecast for Malta and it's in the low 30s, so a bit better, but still quite hot. Can they bury down into the soil a bit to get off the top layer, which will be very hot?

I do think they will be OK. I suppose you could leave a bit of cucumber out for them (not normally recommended as food, but it does contain a lot of water, and if you have any edible succulents, they are fairly good for hydration too.

Good luck, don't worry too much, and have a lovely holiday.

Nina

Daniel
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Re: Leaving Tortoises Alone

Post by Daniel » 03 Aug 2022, 17:38

Regarding leaving them alone for 7 to 10 days, I would be worried about large birds trying to pick them up, as they are such a small species, and some individuals having not much weight to them.

They tend to be not the best at drinking water at times, but I certainly would leave a few shallow water dishes around your garden, and if possible try and ask a friend if they can visit ever few days to make sure they have fresh water available to drink and to soak in if they choose to do so.

As for food, I would myself leave a few cactus pads from Opuntia Cactus laying around, as these keep their moisture content for along time, even if broken in half. But remember that cactus and succulents can lead to very loose stools if over eaten.

Hopefully they have a couple of places out of the weather in your garden, if possible make sure they have access to a well shaded borrow type of area out of the weather that can't fill up with water, preferably with a mix of sand and some coir/soil in a 70/30% mixture, which you can make damp before you leave, so it will stay cool for a few days at least.

If there is another area that is out of the weather you can fill a dish with some Testudo Pre Alpin fibre food, which is a dry fibre mix, that is loose and doesn't require soaking, egyptian tortoises will eat this freely as its a very similar type of food that they eat in the dry season in habitat. But it must be left in a place where it can't get wet or damp, as moulds could develop.

Regards Daniel, ex. Egyptian tortoise keeper.

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Nina
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Re: Leaving Tortoises Alone

Post by Nina » 03 Aug 2022, 19:54

Hi Daniel,

Great to hear from you, and thanks for the really useful post (lots of good advice and tips in there).

Cheers,
Nina

Ladybird_mt
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Re: Leaving Tortoises Alone

Post by Ladybird_mt » 05 Aug 2022, 20:25

Hello Daniel & Nina

Not sure what happened but I couldn’t get into The Tortoise Table for a couple of days. I then looked to see if TTT had a Facebook page and saw that there was some problem.

Anyway, thank you so much for taking the time to write and give me some more tips. The garden has a lot of shade, unfortunately there is no sunshine in the winter so most of the time they’re indoors or on the balcony. During the summer I also leave out a large umbrella in the garden, it provides a lot of shade. We never see large birds here in Malta like you see in England, we just get robins and sparrows and tiny wall lizards. My tortoises are not fond of cactus but I do offer it to them, along with aloe Vera.

Yes Nina, they do bury themselves half way into the soil, but I don’t know why they don’t like being in the sun like other good little torts?! I think it’s just too hot but even during the winter they’re not fond of it. I would never see them in the summer unless I pick them up to feed and bathe - is it wrong to do that, or should I just let them do as they please and remain where they are all through the hot summer? I pick them up once every two days, they eat a little and then go off to half-bury themselves.

Last question, promise! - can you recommend somewhere to purchase wild flower seeds for tortoises please.

Thank you!
Anne Marie

Daniel
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Re: Leaving Tortoises Alone

Post by Daniel » 06 Aug 2022, 07:49

Good morning Anne Marie and Nina.

The best place I have found to buy weed seeds for tortoises is shelledwarriorsshop.co.uk these do a good amount of different seed combinations, I buy the quick grow mix, the spring and summer mix, the medatrainain mix and the grass mix. I feed these at different times of the year, I mix a little of the grass mix in with each of the weed mixes every time I sow a new pot or tray.

You will need to contact the company before buy from them to see if they can supply your country, as there are strict regulations on importation of seeds, you will also have to check with your authorities too. There are also alot of seed suppliers in Germany to for reptile feed, but I have no recommendations, as I have never got supplies from them.

My experience with Egyptian tortoises, is once the temps go over or approach 33 degrees C they tend to go off their feed. In the summer they are a more likely to feed in the early morning or late afternoon once the temperature has fallen, and from what I have read over the years this is a natural behaviour. Always try and leave the feed in the same place each time, so they know where to find it.

Don't forget these are very small tortoises and they really don't eat much compared to their larger medatrainain cousins, and I have found they eat little and then move on and go for a rest, which would tell me they are a ture grazing species.

Once you have purchased some seed mixes, sow them in seed trays and once the trays have grown, dig a little area in the garden where you place the tray in the ground at the same level as the soil, so the tortoises can be grazing as they like. All you have to do is water the weeds and once they have run out of edibles, replace the tray.

As for the cactus, if they don't want to eat these, you can try things such as livingstone daisy's, stonecrop, hens and chicks etc, just have a look on the safe cactus and succulents to feed your tortoises list on the site, these all have good levels of fibre and moisture.

If your really worried about your tortoises not eating enough, keep a record of their weight, you can weigh them a couple of times a month, and if they are adults just make sure they maintain weight thoughout the year, you will find they loose a little and gain a little thoughout the seasons, but as long they maintain their average weight thoughout the year there is nothing to worry about.

Regards Dan.

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Nina
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Re: Leaving Tortoises Alone

Post by Nina » 06 Aug 2022, 12:10

Thanks for the really useful post, Dan. I agree that Shelled Warriors provide some good seed mixtures. I usually advise buying the smallest quantity with the most species in it to start with, and sowing small trays (as you suggest), every couple of weeks, so that you have a continuous supply of plants for them to eat.

And I found your observations on the weight gain patterns of Egyptian tortoises very interesting. I have Horsfields, and they will gain enormous amounts of weight and grow far too quickly if given too much to eat (and they will always be ready to scoff down huge amounts of food if given the opportunity). If people don't know about Horsfields, the reason for this is that in the wild they inhabit areas where there are long, cold winters and long, hot summers, so they brummate/hibernate for a very long time in the winter and then aestivate in the heat of the summer. One study showed that on average Horsfields were only awake and active for three months of the year, and during that period they ate for a total of around 20 or 30 hours -- so they are sort of programmed to 'eat for England', and in captivity their intake needs to be monitored to ensure they don't grow too quickly. Egyptian torts seem to have a better perspective on all of this!

Nina

Daniel
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Re: Leaving Tortoises Alone

Post by Daniel » 06 Aug 2022, 13:13

I think the eating habits between different tortoise species come from the environments they come from. We have to remember that egyptian tortoises don't have a hibernation period. So they get to eat foods thoughout the year, some parts of the year this will be green vegetation foods, and in the dry season it will be dry vegetation, although I do believe that plants such as (sea lavender and seawart if I remember correctly is available green foods all year around, although probably in limited supply).

Spieces such as horsfields, hermanns and some of the spur-thighed hibernating species need to eat more, as they need fat, protein and carbohydrates from plant sources to get through the winter months without any foods for long periods. When we look at non hibernating species I would say that water retention is far more important, we also know from observation that tortoises from alot warmer climates are less active in periods of extreme hot weather. Also we have to take into account the size difference of each species and the nutritional level of each food consumed.

Also if we look at the African spur-thighed tortoise, they can go for an extremely long time without water or foods in the dry seasons. So these animals will eat huge amounts of foods and drink water when available, before the dry season and then dig massive holes in the ground to get down to the moisture in the soil to keep cool and to retain moisture.

So in captivity one keeper's environment will be totally different to another persons, so food and water, and to some degree eating habits will be completely different compared to someone elses.

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Nina
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Re: Leaving Tortoises Alone

Post by Nina » 06 Aug 2022, 15:42

I completely agree. We always say that the most important factor in tortoise keeping is to first know your species (including its natural environment), and then your husbandry will follow on from that. So many people don't do their homework before they get their tortoises and then end up with huge problems and unhealthy and unhappy tortoises.

Nina

Daniel
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Re: Leaving Tortoises Alone

Post by Daniel » 06 Aug 2022, 16:40

One thing I did forget to say, any sort of very small weight gain or losses in a healthy adult Egyptian tortoises is more to do with if the stomach or bladder is full or empty, as appose to body mass weight loss.

Yes I agree with that statement completely Nina, the environment is such a big factor in tortoise care. I always say to people that tortoises are not that hard to look after, but they do require some pre knowledge and most of all a little planning for the indoor and outdoor care, as well as good knowledge of the diet and again little planning on how to grow weeds and we're to find weeds in our local area.

Ladybird_mt
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Joined: 29 Sep 2020, 08:19

Re: Leaving Tortoises Alone

Post by Ladybird_mt » 06 Aug 2022, 20:04

Hi Dan & Nina

Thank you for the valuable advice and information in your messages. I have a lot to go by now if I do decide in the end to leave them on their own and every bit of advice is possible for me to do. I will most certainly try to buy the seeds as my tortoises are very finicky and there isn’t much of a choice in wildflowers here, especially at the moment it being so hot. In the garden I have some wild snapdragon which they like and I managed to save the dandelion as long as I could. There’s a field next door and it’s got a lot of cactus the sort that is safe for them to eat, although they’re not interested in it I do offer it to them.

I will keep note of their weight, last year they did lose some weight during the summer but it was slight and they quickly put it on once they started to eat more. Yes, they are very small tortoises although they’re around 30 years old. When I offer them food, they eat a little, but I feel it’s a good enough amount for their size, and yes again, they then go and rest straight away!

Anyway, I can’t thank you both enough for all your help, I feel more confident now and know what I should be doing!

Anne Marie

Daniel
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Re: Leaving Tortoises Alone

Post by Daniel » 14 Aug 2022, 11:08

Feeding them weeds from trays, and letting them graze as they need is so much more of a better idea than just placing foods in front of them to eat. Just make sure you have a few trays for them to use a round the yard to eat from, and keep a few growing so they have something to eat when the first set of trays are eaten.

Just going on to how much they eat, is a very hard thing to gauge, the best way, when placing foods in front of them, is only feed enough to maintain their weight as yours are adults. I find that feeding enough food just to make a blanket to cover the shell is normally enough and they should eat it within a time frame of around 15, to 20 minutes. But in saying this sometimes you will find that they eat very little, and this depends on the nutrition levels in the foods that we provide, some things fill them up very quickly and then they won't eat as much then. Also environmental conditions play a large part too.

If you do go on holiday, I hope you have a wonderful time too.

Ladybird_mt
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Joined: 29 Sep 2020, 08:19

Re: Leaving Tortoises Alone

Post by Ladybird_mt » 18 Aug 2022, 02:18

Hi Daniel

Sorry was away from the Net for a few days. Thank you for writing again, it’s very much appreciated. I’m still at home and not gone anywhere, it’s been very hot, yesterday it felt like 44C. Albert and Elliot were no where to be seen, they have lots of shade and places to hide, hardly any sunny spots, I’ve been misting the garden a couple of times a day. They only eat a little and to do that, I have to take them to their food, they seem to enjoy it and gobble it up! I doubt whether I will go on holiday this year but sooner or later will have to when my partner has to go for treatment. The advice you and Nina have given me will make me feel confident about leaving them behind safely.

Anne Marie

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