Worming

[PhilBen]

Hi, what is peoples opinion on Cloverleaf Absolute Tortoise Wormer Plus 5g AW5/6 Worming Treatment Pro Strength ?

[Nina]

I hadn't heard of this product but looked it up just now and it contains Flubendazole, which is often used to treat parasites in fish. I think it is also used for tortoises, but I can't find an adequate comparison of Flubendazole and Fenbendazole, which is the treatment of choice by most vets for tortoises. I've checked my copy of Stuart McArthur's 'Veterinary Management of Tortoises and Turtles', but Flubendazole isn't mentioned there. The only anthelmintic preparations that he mentions are Albendazole, Fenbendazole and Oxfendazole (and he notes that Ivermectin and Piperazine are not suitable for tortoises). It is an old copy though (published in 1996), so I expect in more recent editions Flubendazole would be discussed.

Just a caution -- it's not a great idea to worm a tortoise unless you know that it needs worming, as all of these drugs play havoc a bit with the tortoise's digestive system, and for that reason it's not advised to worm a tortoise just prior to hibernation. It's always best, if you need to worm, to do it well in advance so that the tortoise can get back to normal before going into hibernation, and if a tortoise doesn't have a high level of worm eggs in its poo then you don't really need to worm at all.

Nina

[PhilBen]

Thanks Nina, i am just trying to learn as much info as pos quickly. I used to keep koi, marine and tropical fish and i know any pet or human being healthy will keep most disease and parasites at bay. I used to say a hungry fish is a healthy fish. I have noticed online there are a lot of people saying that their tortoises have slowed down drastically the last few days. I am guessing its the lack of good weather?
By the way still no bubbles

[Nina]

It's great that you are trying to learn a lot, Phil, and that will ensure that Shelly and Skippy have a happy and healthy life! And I'm so glad that the bubbles have stopped -- what a relief that must be.

Regarding slowing down, yes, it's probably the weather. It's really interesting, but even when indoors and with all their lights, my tortoises still seem to know when the days are getting shorter. Mine are Horsfields, and they have a really strong hibernation instinct and each year around this time they just decide not to wake up in the mornings, so I try and encuorage them to get back into a summer frame of mind, as I prefer to have them hibernate at a time when waking up will not occur in the middle of winter, and there might be some nice weeds starting to appear outside for them. .

[PhilBen]

I am glad you said about hybernation. knowing mine are about 12 months old should i aim for about 8 weeks at the end of nov for them ?

[Nina]

Hi Phil,

This is a very awkward one. In the wild, tortoises would hibernate from year 1, and many would say that this is what we should do with our captive tortoises, but of course we don't know how many of the very young ones in the wild die in hibernation. Our general advice is that you should wait until you have had a tortoise for at least a year before hibernating. This is because it is super important that a tortoise is in the very best of health before hibernating, and it can take a year or so before you are completely attuned to its ways, so that you know if it is feeling a bit off colour. Given that, and given their age, I think I might be tempted to not hibernate them this year, but aim for next year for their first hibernation.

If you do want to go ahead with hibernation, we can send you all of the information: instructions on preparation for hibernation (winding down), which is very important, box hibernation, fridge hibernation, and waking from hibernation. Just let me know, and i'll email them to you.

Nina

[PhilBen]

Hi Nina,
Ok I will leave them. If thats the case, how long per day do i leave the lights on over the winter. Also do I feed etc as normal over the winter ? Thanks for the info much appreciated.

[Nina]

Well, basically you want to fool them into thinking that it's a bright summer's day, so I would leave the lights on for 12 hours.

Regarding feeding, you always want really slow growth. I don't know how much you are feeding them now, but you should aim for a weight gain of, on average, no more than 1g - 3g per month. So just keep regular weight records in the Observation Records Booklet that I sent you, and if they are consistently gaining more than that then cut down on the food a bit. Also keep up any calcium and D3 supplements you are giving, and keep a cuttlefishbone in their enclosure so that they can nibble on it at will, and you can also sprinkle pure calcium carbonate powder on their food. You can overdose on the vitamin and D3 supplements, but you can't really overdose on calcium, and they will need lots of calcium to suppport that growing shell and bone, so on the days when you don't give a vitamin supplement do give plain calcium (and if you wet their food the powder will stick to it better.

Also, when they are indoors all of the time during the winter, the lights are very drying, so make sure they are soaked every couple of days to keep them well hydrated.

Nina

[PhilBen]

Hi Nina,
Thanks for the info. I am already giving vits and Calcium Carbonate. Baths every 2 days. Shelly has put on weight this week but has always stayed the same until now. Skippy has put on weight a bit too much, she eats like a horse, so i will try and restrict her a bit. I now have plans to extend both the table by 2ft and the outside run by another 3ft, before next summer. The hobby is very addictive

[Nina]

Ha, ha -- welcome to the world of tortoise keepers! I'll bet that 5 or 10 years ago if someone told you that you'd be obsessed with a shelled reptile you would have laughed and never believed it!

Vits, calcium and baths sound perfect.

If you are thinking of extending your table, I would definitely consider adding an upper level -- you get lots more space for them to roam around but the overal length of the table doesn't get bigger, so it doesn't take up more space in your room. And if you feed them on the upper level you'll find that they constantly run up and down the ramp to see if there are any treats up there for them. If you do consider an upper level I can give you some tips to avoid pitfalls. Here are two pics of mine, taken a while ago (sorry if I've sent them to you before).

It's a bit different now, with more rocks on the lower level for them to climb over and more plants growing in the substrate. The only thing I would do differently is to make the upper level smaller, as they don't need that much space and it means that the sleeping area, which is underneath the upper level, is much larger than they need and so sort of wasted a lot of the time.

Nina

[attachment=0]base of ramp with wood to stop slipping.jpg[/attachment][attachment=1]Top level. Ramp just rests on wall.jpg[/attachment][attachment=2]m_IMG_9496.jpg[/attachment]

[PhilBen]

The trouble i have is that there are cupboards above it, so going higher would be a problem. What plants do you recommend for the table. i had to take the spider plant out as it was attracting fruit fly's. I have put a little pink light weight plastic ball and shelly has had a great day kicking it around the table
Skippy is fast asleep under the heat lamp. Pink ball in the pic

[attachment=0]IMG_20230831_142225.jpg[/attachment]