Hibernation update and help needed please...

[Emma25]

Hello,

We put Penny into her hibernation boxes on Friday morning, after a couple of days scratching about she seems to have settled in since Sunday and we haven't heard any more movement.

We put news paper and a layer of coir in her box and covered her with more paper. We have been worried as the moisture reading on the thermometer was getting higher so we prepared a new inner hibernation box to swap her into, just with newspapers and no coir.

This morning we took her internal box out and the bottom was very damp and she had dug right through. We think its the coir has been too damp but am concerned she has had a wee.

We gave her a quick weigh and she has put on 2g (unsure if that's a true weight gain or has some substrate being stuck and caused the gain)

Her leg moved when we touched her, however she was fast asleep and never moved otherwise..she was out of the box for less than a minute in total. She has gone back in not moved.

I am so upset we put coir in the box and now worried even more so.

Any advice or words of wisdom appreciated.....thank you x

[Nina]

Hi Emma,

I read your post about five minutes after putting my two into their hibernation boxes in the fridge, and having a slight panic in case they had a wee in the bath they had before they went in (but weights were fine so some relief) -- so I know exactly how you are feeling!

It's really difficult to know whether she had a wee in the coir. Was it completely dry when you put it in, or was it a bit damp? If it was a bit damp then the cold of the garage might have made it feel a bit more damp and you are probably fine, as she almost certainly would have lost a few grams in weight if she had a wee.

If the coir was fairly damp when you put it in, then I think you were right to remove it, as Horsfields do all right if it is warm and wet, but they aren't so great with cold and wet (although just slightly damp isn't really wet). It's good to hear that she has settled down. My two sometimes take ages to settle down, but once they do, Horsfields are good hibernators and if you have a nice range of temperatures in the garage (2C or 3C to about 7C or so) then she probably won't lose much weight in hibernation. If it does get up to about 10C for any length of time, that might be a bit of a problem, but then you can just shorten the hibernation time. Luckily we are in for some colder temperatures from now on so she should be just fine.

Let us know how you get on, and I hope she has a happy hibernation. By the way, in order to qualify as a good tortoise keeper you are required to go out to the garage on Christmas morning and loudly sing 'We Wish You a Merry Christmas'!

Nina

[Emma25]

Hi Nina

Thank you for the reassurance. The coir came out of a new freshly opened bag which had been stored in the garage so it was very cold and damp to the touch so I suspect it was that.

The temperature was reading 10 c on Friday/Saturday but has now settled at 7 to 8, is that OK? My next worry will be its too cold!!

I would sing to her everyday if it means a successful hibernation and she will be getting spoiled once she is out of hibernation!

I hope your two settle welll and thanks again for the reassuring words.

Many thanks
Emma

[Nina]

Hi Emma,

The ideal temperature for hibernation is 5C, and it can go down to around 2C (theoretically it can go down to just above freezing, but we say 2C to allow for thermometers not being completely accurate). 7C - 8C should be OK, but hopefully you will want it to be a bit colder than that, and I think it is meant to get colder, so that is good. The only thing to worry about with cold temperatures is if it gets down to freezing or below for more than a couple of days, as eventually, even if you have good insulation in the box, the below zero temperature will get into the box and soft tissues can freeze.

Do you have any means of raising the temperature in the garage by just a degree or so if it does get sub-zero? There is really very little risk there, as a brick-built garage should mainly keep out sub-zero temperatures, and it would probably have to be below zero for quite a few days outdoors for it to get to below zero in the garage. If that does happen then it's handy to have something like one of those tubular heaters that can be plugged into a thermostat, so that if the temperature drops below a certain degree then it would come on. They don't use big amounts of electricity to heat up, and it won't be on most of the time anyway.

Also, are you measuring the temperature in the garage or in the box itself? Fridge thermometers like the one in the link below are very useful because you can sit the digital display unit on top of the box (so you don't have to open it) and then the probe goes inside the box with the tortoise, and they usually have a Max/Min function on them so that you can tell how hot or how cold it got since you last checked. https://www.pharmacy-equipment.co.uk/pr ... er-tmm105/

Sorry for the long post!
Nina

[Emma25]

Hello,

We have a probe going into her box and the temp display sits on top of the box so we can read it. We also have a back up one in there.

We have never known the garage temperature get to freezing or below but if it did we have a utility room next to the garage which is 2 or 3 degrees warmer (thermometer in there also!) so we would move her in there.

There is usually somebody in the house during the day and it will never be empty overnight during the hibernation period so we can always monitor it. The weather is definitely getting colder here so hopefully that will help.

Thanks again for your support and help.
Emma

[Nina]

It sounds like you've got the perfect set-up and back up plans -- happy hibernation!

Nina
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[Emma25]

Hello,

Just a little update for you, we took Penny out of her hibernation box on Thursday. She managed to dig her way through two inner boxes (on two different occasions, she never got through the outer box luckily). Despite thinking she might have settled, each time we went in the garage she was scratching and scraping, we were just worrying about her all the time. The temperatures really dropped at one point and that still made no difference to her.

Within ten minutes of being back in the house she was trying to climb out of a box we had put her in to warm her up, she was looking around and just so alert and active. She has been eating and drinking/soaking, enjoying basking under lamp and generally just looking like she is happy to be out of the box and back with us!

We possibly gave in too quickly, but I feel we have done the right thing for this year and next year we will try again and hopefully she will hibernate.

I hope all is going well with your two!

Thanks
Emma

[Nina]

Well, you can probably just view that experience as a dress rehearsal for next year

I think you might well have given in too early -- but I know how awful it is to hear them scratching around and staring up at you with eyes wide open when you go to look at them.

How did she get out of the box she was in? Were you using cardboard boxes? A tortoise can easily claw through a cardboard box, so I always use plastic storage boxes with lids and then I burn quite a few holes in the side and lid for circulation and to put the probe of the thermometer in. And Horsfields are a burrowing species, so they are even more likely than other species to dig their way out of a cardboard box.

Horsfields are also notorious for taking a long time to settle in. My Dolly has only just gone a bit quiet, after ten days of scratching around, looking alert with eyes open and generally stressing me out. Doris, on the other hand, settled in really well and has been quiet since she went in.

I'm sure it's a great relief to you to have Penny back and full of beans, and I'm sure she'll be fine -- but do think about giving it a go next year. In a way, it's easier to settle them in a fridge, as that has a constant temperature of around 5C, as opposed to box hibernation where the temperature can be warmer at times and less encouraging for hibernation (although many people do hibernate very successfully using the box method).

Thanks so much for letting us know how it went, and I hope that you and your family and Penny have a really lovely Christmas and a happy, healthy, and sunny 2023.

Nina

[Emma25]

Hello Nina

Thanks for your support and help over the last few weeks, its been very much appreciated. She was in a cardboard box and then that was sat in another one. She dug through the side of the inner box but luckily the outer box wasn't touched.

We will definitely be trying it again next year as we really feel its beneficial for them to hibernate. I think we have learnt alot from this year (Penny and us!) I will also be buying a fridge and preparing that in good time rather than rely on the weather!

Have a very happy Christmas and we will update on progress during 2023!

Many Thanks

[Nina]

Hi Emma,

Learning experiences are always valuable, and it's important that you feel comfortable with whatever you do, so for this year you've probably made the right decision -- and you'll be able to sing 'We Wish You a Merry Christmas' to Penny on Christmas day!
Do let us know how you get on, and please don't hesitate to contact us next year -- we are happy to send you guidance sheets on winding down (preparing) tortoises for hibernation, box hibernation and fridge hibernation -- just let us know when would like them and we'll send them along.

Warmest wishes,
Nina