Hibernation - couple of questions

[Emma25]

Hello,

We are hibernating our Horsfield tortoise for the first time, our first time and we suspect hers. We are 2 and a half weeks into the fasting period, and after an initial couple of weeks where she basked normally and seemed quite active, she has slowed down greatly over the last 3 days. We are bathing her every day which she enjoys however the last 3 days she has gone straight back into her hide afterwards and is digging down into her substrate. She did a poo within the first week of fasting, however it is really difficult to see if she has had a wee.

Temperatures on an evening where her tortoise table is are currently around 13 to 12 degrees. We are using the box method and will be placing her in the garage, we have thermometers at the ready (and backup ones just to be certain!) I wish now we had gone for the fridge method but think it's too late now to get one and test it etc.

I am finding it very hard not feeding her, and the thought of boxing her up and placing her somewhere cold is awful. I have to admit I could quite easily give in and keep her awake over winter but feel that would be very unfair on her, and it feels like she is instinctively knowing what to do.

The plan is too cool her down further towards the end of the week and then put her into her hibernation box at the weekend.

A couple of questions, do people get their tortoises out to weigh them once in hibernation? And I know it's really important they don't do a wee, however I am worried how I would be able to tell as she will be in her soil/coco coir substrate which will make it difficult to see.

Just to add her weight was well within the guidelines for her size, in fact she was a little overweight!

I've read so many forums and websites etc but finding it all really worrying and stressful! Any reassurance or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

[Nina]

Hi Emma,

It's always really scary at hibernation time -- even for those of us who have been doing it for a while -- and especially when they are winding down and fasting and look up at you as if to say "What have I ever done that you should treat me so cruelly?". But don't worry, you're not alone, and you are doing the right thing by following your tortoise's instincts and hibernating her.

A few questions. How old is your tortoise and how much does she weigh? The age and weight determine how long to wind her down and how long she will hibernate, especially if it's a first hibernation. Are you gradually reducing the hours of heat and light so that by the last day or two there is only about one hour of heat and light? I have information sheets on winding down and on box hibernation that I could post here if you want them.

As she will be in a cold environment, if she wees in hibernation then it won't evaporate quickly and you ought to be able to see a dark, wet clump of substrate if she does wee. I would check her every two or three weeks or so, but I would leave her a good two weeks or so before you check her the first time, so that she can settle in (Horsfields sometimes take longer to settle in than some other species). If you want to weigh her, take her out in a dim light and weigh her quickly and put her back in and she'll be fine.

Your brick garage should be fine, unless it gets warm. Ideal hibernation temperature is between about 2C - 8C, but if it gets up to 10C for any length of time then she could start using up body fat an lose a little weight. So it's good that the temperature are forecast to get colder.

Hope I've answered everything but let me know if you'd like the information sheets and if you have any more questions.

Nina

[Emma25]

Hello

Thank you for the quick reply, and offering reassurance, it really is a worrying time.

We took her in from a family earlier this year who couldn't offer her any outdoor time or the care she needed/deserved, and they were unsure of exact age, however they thought somewhere in the region of 7 years old and she weighs 1303g She has had lots of outdoor time over the summer with us, but we brought her in each night (so you have some background information) She loved being outdoors which is another reason for hibernation as we feel it so unfair she is cooped up in her tortoise table at the moment.

We started fasting her on the 26 October, and kept lights and heat on from 7 am till 5 pm, we then reduced that slightly from last Wednesday (9th Nov) from 8 am time to 3pm but since Friday she has slowed down alot and been hiding away (lights and heat have remained on for her) After her bath today she went straight back in her hide and burrowed down.

We planned on reducing the time gradually down again over this next week and put her into hibernation at the weekend? With her slowing down so much these last few days and going straight back in her hide and burrowing down we are worried we are keeping her in some sort of limbo and that she might be using up energy. We feel as though she is telling us she is ready for the next step if that makes sense.

Happy for any further advice though, we would hate to get it wrong.

Thank You..

[Nina]

Hi Emma,

Well, she's a big one, and so your time frame for winding her down sounds right. I do think she must be older than 7 though.

It's great that she has had lots of outdoor time, and it's absolutely normal for her to be sleeping a lot now (mine are doing exactly the same thing as yours).. If you are putting her into hibernation at the weekend, which is fine, then I would definitely start to reduce the hours of light and heat a bit more now. Also, give her a bath just immediately before she goes into the box, to ensure that she is well hydrated, but have the water temperature tepid, or on the verge of being cool, so it doesn't warm her up too much.

Regarding thermometers, do you have one where you can sit the temperature display on the top outside of the box, with a probe that goes into the box with the tortoise? The best ones are the digital fridge thermometers, and they usually have a Max/Min facility on them, which means you can tell how warm it got and how cold it got since you last checked. That way you will be able to check the temperature without disturbing her.
I use ones like this (although you can get them in lots of places): https://www.pharmacy-equipment.co.uk/pr ... er-tmm105/

It's really important that the temperature doesn't get up to 10C for any length of time (as she will start losing body fat and wake up), or down to below about 2C (if it gets down to freezing or below for any length of time then even with good insulation the temperature inside the box will eventually get that low, and you don't want any freezing to go on. Having said that, Horsfields can take lower temperatures than many other species.

I think you and she will do just fine with hibernation (well, she will do fine, and you will gradually get less worried)

Do let me know if you need any other advice. And if you have a photo of her, it would be great to see a photo of your lovely Horsfield (what's her name by the way?).

Nina

[Emma25]

Hi Nina,

Thank you, she is called Penny and I will try and upload some photos so you can see her, one of them is from earlier this year in the garden.

We had a strange thing this morning which has worried us a bit. When we came downstairs and went in the room where her tortoise table is she was out of her hide and sat looking at us even though the room was pitch black and 13C. We put her lights on and she basked for a while and then really came to life moving about her table and trying to climb all over! She is now just basking again under her light. It's just thrown us a bit after the last few days when we thought she was nearly ready.

Hopefully you will be able to see my photos.

Thank You!

[Nina]

Aww, Penny is lovely, and you have a really nice set-up for her. I'm surprised that she weighs well over a kilo -- she doesn't look as big as that, but it's difficult to tell without something next to her to reference her size.

They are so unpredictable. Mine have done the same thing in the past. Once they get into hibernation mode they won't wake up in the morning for weeks, and then one day, there they are, wide awake before the lights even go on. At the moment mine are still pretty much sleeping all day, but yesterday I did go in and find Doris basking under one of the lights.

Don't be too worried, either, if she takes a long time to settle in her box (although as she will be in the garage, I don't expect you will hear her scratching around. We had an email from someone this week who says his Horsfield has been in the fridge for almost two weeks now, and he can hear her scratching around in her box -- very unnerving!

Have attached a photo of my Doris and Dolly in happier, sunnier days, and they send greetings to Penny.
[attachment=0]IMG_8935 (Copy).JPG[/attachment]

Nina

[Emma25]

Hello to Doris & Dolly, they are both so cute.

I am finding having a tortoise far more worrying than I ever thought, although they are such lovely animals.

I will keep you posted and thank you for the reassuring words and responses to my questions! I am sure there will be many more

[Nina]

You've truly joined the ranks of tortoise keepers if you're worrying a lot. Lol, I think I worry more about my tortoises than I ever did about my son when he was growing up! But you are right in saying that they are lovely animals -- endlessly fascinating, I think.

Do ask away -- that's what we're here for, and it's always lovely to get an update on people's tortoises too.

Cheers,
Nina

[Emma25]

Hi,

An update for you, she went into her hibernation box earlier this morning She has been scratching around for most of the day which is awful to hear, although I understand that is normal. Feeling very guilty that she has been boxed up and put away, hopefully she will settle down soon.