Advice Needed - 3 year old Herman

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Terrysmum
Posts: 11
Joined: 25 Aug 2021, 15:41

Advice Needed - 3 year old Herman

Post by Terrysmum » 25 Aug 2021, 16:02

We have a nearly 3 year old Herman tortoise who has stopped eating and moves very little. Up until about 4 weeks ago all was fine, he was a good eater and very active. He now will not eat and sleeps all the time. We have seen a Vet who has carried out a blood test and x-rays - all was good.

We have been feeding him Ermeraid on the advice of the vet - luckily he seems to like it so we have not had to force feed him and he will eat it at least once a day.

His routine now is we soak him for 30 mins with Reptoboost in the water and then feed him the Emeraid. We do this twice a day although on most days he will only eat once. As soon as he is finished be digs himself back into his covered area. The temp in his enclosure is over 30/31 where the lamps are and about 29 at the cooler end.

We have had this routine for about 2 weeks now. I am wondering if anyone has a tips or ideas on how we get him to eat again. He used to love dandylions, most lettuce especially radiccio.

I have attached some photos in case it helps. With the summer we have had he has only been outside on a few days and used to love it but now he is indoors all of the time.

Thanks in advance.
Attachments
enclosure outside 12.8.2021.jpg
Terry 12.8.2021.jpg
enclosure indoor 12.8.2021.jpg

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Nina
Posts: 2003
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:22

Re: Advice Needed - 3 year old Herman

Post by Nina » 25 Aug 2021, 20:15

Hi Terrysmum, and many thanks for contacting us!

First of all can I say that your tortoise is lovely (is he the Terry in Terrysmum?), but he is a Horsfield tortoise and not a Hermann's tortoise, and your vet should have mentioned that. The care of Horsfields is almost exactly the same as the care for Hermann's so advice for one species will be fine for the other, but I just thought I should point that out. Was he sold to you as a Hermann's? Here's a link for a care sheet for Horsfields: https://www.tortoise-protection-group.o ... 014New.pdf

Thanks for all the information and the photos. I must say, you've created a really nice looking outdoor enclosure for him, and he could go out in it even if the weather isn't super hot. If you can be outside in a t-shirt then your tortoise can go out (but of course we've had lots of cold and wet days this summer when he couldn't go out). If it's a bit cool, you can put him out for an hour or so and when his shell begins to feel cool you can take him in for a warm-up. My own tortoises have had to be indoors a lot this year and they get bored and take themselves off to bed much earlier than they would if they were outdoors.

I think one of the problems might be the temperature gradient in his indoor enclosure. I couldn't quite tell from the photo, but is that a large vivarium (glass and wood enclosed box)? If it is then these aren't really suitable for tortoises because of their need for a range of temperatures in their enclosure, and for this what you need is an open-topped tortoise table. Tortoises need a hot temperature that is measured directly below the heat source and at the height of their shell of 30C, and then at the other end of their enclosure it should be about 20C (a thermometer that isn't directly below the heat source will give you an artificially low reading). In this way they can move from warmer to cooler areas and back again to thermoregulate, which is essential. Also they need better air circulation than vivariums can provide. Vivs are very good for snakes and lizards but not for tortoises. When it is too hot them tortoises just want to sleep all the time, and the same goes for when it is too cold. Could you measure the temperature directly under his heat source?

Also, can you let me know what you are using for light, heat and UVB? I think I can see a ceramic heat emitter which produces heat well, but tortoises need heat and as bright a light as possible, and these heaters don't produce light. I think I can also see a UVB tube hanging down at the far end, and this is fine for UVB, but the light from them isn't really bright enough for tortoises and doesn't encourage activity.

It might sound like big project, but if Terry is in a vivarium, it is relatively easy to convert that into an enclosure that would be much better for him, and I've attached a couple of photos of how to do it, as well as a link to an article written by someone who was incorrectly sold a vivarium and converted it.
https://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/tor ... SaSMt_TWNI
Forgive me if I am misinterpreting and this isn't a vivarium you are using!

The Emeraid will be fine for a short period of time, until you get him eating again, but you obviously want to get him eating properly long-term. If he likes the Emeraid then you could try smearing some of it on a dandelion leaf, or some weeds or flowers that you want him to eat. Radiccio is OK for tortoises, but really only in small amounts, and I wouldn't feed other lettuces much at all as they don't really have loads of nutrition in them and not enough fibre. Tortoises need a high fibre/low protein diet and salad leaves are what we call a 'wet food', that goes through their digestive system too quickly. Fine every now and then, but He really should be having weeds, flowers, etc. and you can use the filter on our website plant database to produce lists of good plants to feed. (I can tell you how to do this but I'm worried that this post is going on too long and you're going to get fed up with my advice!).

Finally, was your vet a reptile/exotics vet or an ordinary vet? It's just that I was a bit surprised that he took x-rays and did a blood test, and didn't test for parasites/worms using a sample of poo, as that would be one of the first things a reptile vet would do if a tortoise isn't eating and is sleeping a lot and the x-rays and blood tests would be done later if necessary.

I really do think that this is a temperature/light problem and hopefully can be easily fixed. I'm so sorry to have written such a long post, and I would be happy to have a quick chat on the phone, which might be easier. I could email you my phone number or you can email me yours (don't post it here), and I would phone you at a time that is convenient for you, or you could phone me. Just email me on nina@thetortoisetable.org.uk

Best wishes,
Nina
[attachment=0]Viv Conversion.jpg[/attachment][attachment=1]Viv conversion.jpeg[/attachment]
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Viv Conversion.jpg
Viv conversion.jpeg

Terrysmum
Posts: 11
Joined: 25 Aug 2021, 15:41

Re: Advice Needed - 3 year old Herman

Post by Terrysmum » 30 Aug 2021, 11:32

Hi, Nina thank you for the detailed advice. It is very much appreciated. I have sent you an email in response. I have now changed his light to a basking lamp and remove the heat lamp and we now have 22 at the cool end and 30 at the lamp end. After his bath this morn8 g he stayed under the basking lamp for a while, he would not eat but at least he did not go straight into his sleeping area. Small progress I think.
I think it would be helpful to speak to you direct and I have included my telephone number in the email.
Thanks again.

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Nina
Posts: 2003
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:22

Re: Advice Needed - 3 year old Herman

Post by Nina » 30 Aug 2021, 12:00

Hi Terrysmum,
I'm so glad that there has been some progress -- that's a good sign. I would be more than happy to have a chat on the phone (much easier than back and forth posts), but I haven't had an email from you. Not sure what address you used, but my email is nina@thetortoisetable.org.uk. Could you send me an email to that address?

Looking forward to hearing from you,
Nina

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