Herman and spur thigh females needing new home

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LauraJ
Posts: 2
Joined: 05 Sep 2020, 10:29

Herman and spur thigh females needing new home

Post by LauraJ » 12 Oct 2020, 22:01

Hi everyone,

We have 2 female tortoises that need new homes. One is a spur thighed and the other a Herman. They were born May 2019.
We have apparently been giving them a little too much Uv light which means they are bigger than normal. They weigh around 210 and 290 grams. We are so sorry we are having to rehome them, but feel we cannot give them the proper care and husbandry they need. We live in Begbroke Oxfordshire. If anyone would like more pictures please let me know. Many thanks. :D
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Nina
Posts: 2003
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:22

Re: Herman and spur thigh females needing new home

Post by Nina » 12 Oct 2020, 22:28

Hi Laura,

Welcome to The Tortoise Table and I am so sorry that you are having to rehome your tortoises.

Could I ask who told you that UV light will cause them to grow too quickly? I'm afraid that isn't true, and certainly indoors it is almost impossible to provide 'too much' UV light -- and in any case UV light has no effect on determining their size. The only way they will grow quickly is by eating more food than they might eat in the wild, or by eating food that is too high in protein. They are certainly much heavier, at 210g and 290g, than you would expect for tortoises that are still less than two years old. Having said all that -- their shells look good to me and do not have the sort of pyramiding or deformity that you would expect if they have grown too quickly (in fact their shells look good from the photos you have sent), so I am wondering if they might be a bit older than you have been told. It is really good that you have provided your tortoises with a tortoise table, and that will have given them a good start in life!

If you are sure that you want to rehome them we will do everything we can to help you. I do need to say that if you are rehoming through The Tortoise Table, we stipulate that no money can change hands -- so I hope that's OK. We will put together a little notice for you and post it on our Facebook page, where there is a bigger audience than on the forum, and if you are willing we can put your email address on that notice so that people interested in rehoming can contact you directly. We would advise you to ask lots of questions about what their experience is in keeping tortoises, what sort of set-ups (both indoor and outdoor) the applicants plan to provide, etc. and you can request photos too.

Would you mind if they went to different homes? Strictly speaking two different species shouldn't be kept together (for various reasons (which I could explain). They seem to have lived happily together up until now, but there are potential problems later on, so if you are happy for them to be separated it might be easier to rehome them.

Does that sound OK?

Nina

LauraJ
Posts: 2
Joined: 05 Sep 2020, 10:29

Re: Herman and spur thigh females needing new home

Post by LauraJ » 13 Oct 2020, 06:19

Hi Nina,
Thank you very much for your message!
We brought them from a breeder about 20 miles from us, they have lots of torts in their garden and we’ve been having difficulties recently with the larger one - elvis mounting willow and head butting her and even trying to bite her foot at the weekend 😔 and it seems like dominating behaviour and we just haven’t the facilities or space to separate them in our house. So for help, we called the breeder we got them from and he told me because I’d been leaving the UV light on for 10 or more hours a day this is probably what caused the growth! I asked about if we’d fed them too much but he didn’t seem to think this was the main problem. He then told me to separate them and put one under the lamp for 5 hours per day and the other in a cool place and alternate them. Also to look to hibernate them this winter and maybe put them outside in an enclosure, which I didn’t think we could do yet as their so young. To be honest he did come across as a little condescending and i felt so upset and overwhelmed that I’d done things wrong. He said the Herman looks like the shell has ridges because she’s grown too quickly?
We have 4 dogs so housing them outside isn’t really an option and we just don’t have the room to house them inside separately.
I am at a loss, so sadly I think they need to go to a great home, where people can give them what they need 🙂
I totally agree they will be far better off housed separately
I’m also disappointed they sold us two different types as they didn’t say anything about not doing that at the time.
Thanks so much for your kind message. It’s very helpful.
Do you need any more pics?
Oh and absolutely fine about no money changing hands.

Many Thanks 😊

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Nina
Posts: 2003
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:22

Re: Herman and spur thigh females needing new home

Post by Nina » 13 Oct 2020, 09:10

Hi Laura,

It is very interesting about your breeder. I don't know any breeder who would sell tortoises of two different species to someone, if they weren't going ot keep them separate, and also I'm afraid the theory about UV light causing excess growth is just not correct.

There are two main types of UV light -- UVA and UVB. Tortoises should have both, but UVB is the really important one. The main (and best) source of UVB is from the sun, and it reacts with the tortoise's skin and enables it to produce Vitamin D3. Vitamin D3 enables the tortoise to absorb and utilise the calcium in its diet, and calcium is super important for supporting healthy bone and shell growth (and when you think about it, they have an awful lot of bone and shell). The same process happens with the sun in humans, and it's why doctors now say that people in the northern hemisphere (like the UK) should take Vitamin D supplements, because we don't have enough exposure to the sun and for a good part of the year it is lower in the sky and therefore at not such a good angle, so most of us suffer from Vitamin D deficiency. It has nothing to do with the rate of growth -- it ensures that the bone and shell that a tortoise produces is healthy and strong (and in humans it can support the immunity system).

The behaviour that Elvis is showing is typical male mating/dominance behaviour, but you can sometimes get that with female tortoises too. If yours are really less than two years old (it should say on the Article 10 certificates that the breeder gave you when you bought them), then it is probably too early to sex them, but because they are the size of an older tortoise, we might be able to do this. Could you send photos of the undersides of the two tortoises, clearly showing the tail? As I said, it's probably too early, but it might be possible.

Given that it looks like they will need to be separated for various reasons, would you consider keeping one of them and rehoming the other? The Spur Thigh will grow to be much bigger than the Hermann's.

Regarding an outdoor enclosure -- tortoises really thrive outdoors, but it needs to be warm enough for them, so they can't live outdoors all year round without a good source of heat. If you can wear a t-shirt outside then tortoises can go outdoors, and the natural sunshine is very good for them. You can make an outdoor enclosusre secure from dogs by putting a lid over the top of it (a wooden frame covered in chicken wire or something can work well. You are right to be concerned about dogs and tortoises together, but with care you can protect a tortoise from a dog.

I can tell that you really care about your tortoises, and I think you could provide a good home for them. I understand the difficulty in keeping two of them separately, but If you would like to keep one of the tortoises, we would be really happy to support you in any way we can. There is so much involved here -- would you like to have a chat on the phone about it? I could ring you at your convenience, or I could give you my phone number and you could ring me -- just drop me an email at nina@thetortoisetable.org.uk if you would like to do that. Sometimes it's easier talking rather than writing.

Best,
Nina

User avatar
lin
Posts: 1034
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:27

Re: Herman and spur thigh females needing new home

Post by lin » 13 Oct 2020, 20:58

Hi Laura. So sad you have had to come to this decision but well done for knowing when the time is right.
Could you send me some photos to make sure of the sex of then. The underneath with the tail down showing the opening and also the fill plastron and head straight down. These both look to be older than a year old.
You know that no money can change hands on either this forum or the TTT FB page because of the policies of both.
Lin

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