doubt about purple clover

Post your pictures and any questions here of European tortoises e.g. Ibera Spur Thigh, Ibera Graeca, Marginated, Hermanns, Kleinmanni and we include the Horsfield tortoise. Also, do add pictures of Mediterranean tortoises you have seen in the wild.
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asecca
Posts: 22
Joined: 23 Feb 2018, 00:08

doubt about purple clover

Post by asecca » 23 Feb 2018, 00:13

Good evening, I'm from Chile, and I have a 4 year old Testudo horsfieldii .. I have doubts about a tree that grows all over the place .. I do not find what proportion of calcium / phosphorus it has, nor is it healthy for my tortoise

the clover is called atropurpurea triangularis or Oxalis regnellii ...

From already thank you very much
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Nina
Posts: 465
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:22

Re: doubt about purple clover

Post by Nina » 23 Feb 2018, 09:49

Hi Asecca, and many thanks for contacting us. Common names can often be misleading, as your Purple Clover isn't really a clover at all -- it is in the Oxalis genus and I'm afraid that it is not good to feed to your tortoises.

It is not actually toxic, but all species of Oxalis are very high in a substance called oxalic acid. Oxalic acid is harmful if eaten in large quantities because it binds with calcium in the tortoise's diet and then prevents the tortoise from absorbing and using that calcium to make healthy bones and shell (and of course tortoises need a lot of calcium to do this), so eating lots of plants with oxalic acid can result in calcium deficiency in a relatively short period of time. So if your tortoise happened to nibble the odd leaf it would not damage him, but I definitely wouldn't feed it deliberately.

Your plant is often grown in the UK as a houseplant, and it is very pretty (the shape of the leaves gives rise to the name Clover, because they look similar to the leaves of clover. We do have an entry for Oxalis species in general -- we don't have a photo of yours there, but the Oxalis triangularis/O. regnellii would be covered by the advice in this entry.
http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/plan ... o_hC-fLiM8

I hope that helps, and please don't hesitate to contact us again if you have any questions. Just a small thing -- if you are asking any questions about plants, we have a section of the forum, in the Plant Identification and Questions section called 'Questions about Plants', so it's best if all questions about plants (rather than questions about particular species of tortoise) can go there. It's fine that you posted here, but it is easierfor your a question about plants to be seen and answered quickly if it goes into the Plant questions section.

How nice to have a Horsfield in Chile! It''s amazing how widespread the keeping of Horsfields is (I have Horsfields here in the UK). They are a species with such great personalities, and I'll bet you live in an area where the climate is better for them than in England (mine are due to wake up from hibernation soon, and it is absolutely freezing here now -- I'm even having difficulty in keeping their indoor enclosure warm enough (will have to put in extra heat and light lamps), and I just hope that Spring comes soon!

Nina

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Nina
Posts: 465
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:22

Re: doubt about purple clover

Post by Nina » 23 Feb 2018, 09:51

Nina wrote:
> Hi Asecca, and many thanks for contacting us. Common names can often be
> misleading, as your Purple Clover isn't really a clover at all -- it is in
> the Oxalis genus and I'm afraid that it is not good to feed to your
> tortoise.
>
> It is not actually toxic, but all species of Oxalis are very high in a
> substance called oxalic acid. Oxalic acid is harmful if eaten in large
> quantities because it binds with calcium in the tortoise's diet and then
> prevents the tortoise from absorbing and using that calcium to make healthy
> bones and shell (and of course tortoises need a lot of calcium to do
> this), so eating lots of plants with oxalic acid can result in calcium
> deficiency in a relatively short period of time. So if your tortoise
> happened to nibble the odd leaf it would not damage him, but I definitely
> wouldn't feed it deliberately.
>
> Your plant is often grown in the UK as a houseplant, and it is very pretty
> (the shape of the leaves gives rise to the name Clover, because they look
> similar to the leaves of clover). We do have an entry for Oxalis species in
> general -- we don't have a photo of yours there, but the Oxalis
> triangularis/O. regnellii would be covered by the advice in this entry.
>
> http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/plan ... o_hC-fLiM8
>
> I hope that helps, and please don't hesitate to contact us again if you
> have any questions. Just a small thing -- if you are asking any questions
> about plants, we have a section of the forum, in the Plant Identification
> and Questions section called 'Questions about Plants', so it's best if all
> questions about plants (rather than questions about particular species of
> tortoise) can go there. It's fine that you posted here, but it is
> easier for your a question about plants to be seen and answered quickly if
> it goes into the Plant questions section.
>
> How nice to have a Horsfield in Chile! It''s amazing how widespread the
> keeping of Horsfields is (I have Horsfields here in the UK). They are a
> species with such great personalities, and I'll bet you live in an area
> where the climate is better for them than in England. Mine are due to wake
> up from hibernation soon, and it is absolutely freezing here now -- I'm
> even having difficulty in keeping their indoor enclosure warm enough (will
> have to put in extra heat and light lamps), and I just hope that Spring
> comes soon!
>
> Nina

asecca
Posts: 22
Joined: 23 Feb 2018, 00:08

Re: doubt about purple clover

Post by asecca » 23 Feb 2018, 13:39

Thank you for your quick and complete response Nina
:) :)
Yes! ... Testudo horsfieldii or hermanni to pets is coming, but very few, with a chip. only males arrive so that there is no possibility of reproduction. In Chile it is summer, the temperature is between 15-17ºC at night and 29-32 days, humidity 30-50%. the most probable thing is that it does not make it hibernate, since in my apartment with the heating the tº is in 18, I will have to put a uv lamp.

for what I found out, you will be very happy with this not-so-humid climate.
I am adapting it to varied vegetables since happy kiko would eat only lettuce. With the database I am incorporating healthy food, it is difficult for the translation. What I was told in Chile that the ballica (Lolium) and timothy are better than alfalfa,
It is true?


sorry for my english
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Kiko.jpg

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lin
Posts: 285
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:27

Re: doubt about purple clover

Post by lin » 23 Feb 2018, 17:04

Hi Asecca. What a lovely chap he is. So smooth.
I will let Nina carry on and answer you when she gets back but in the mean time there is a translate tab that can be found towards the bottom of the homepage that will help.
It looks like this.

Lin
[attachment=0]translate tab.jpeg[/attachment]
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translate tab.jpeg

asecca
Posts: 22
Joined: 23 Feb 2018, 00:08

Re: doubt about purple clover

Post by asecca » 23 Feb 2018, 18:50

Si.....gracias!!!! :D

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lin
Posts: 285
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:27

Re: doubt about purple clover

Post by lin » 23 Feb 2018, 20:41

LOL - Apparently the translate is on the bottom of every page Asecca. We learn something new all the time. :lol:

Lin

asecca
Posts: 22
Joined: 23 Feb 2018, 00:08

Re: doubt about purple clover

Post by asecca » 24 Feb 2018, 03:02

LOL...
It costs me the translation because in Chile we use a lot that we name the plants with names that we recognize only us, so I have to be looking one by one for the scientific name

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Nina
Posts: 465
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:22

Re: doubt about purple clover

Post by Nina » 24 Feb 2018, 08:54

Hi Asecca

Sorry to be so late in getting back to you, but I was out all yesterday afternoon and evening. What a lovely and handsome little Horsfield you have! How long have you had him -- I only ask because he has a very smooth shell, and that is an indication that he has been fed properly and has had good living conditions (UVB light, calcium, etc.). And I can see that you are keeping him on a soil-based substrate, which is perfect. Horsfields are a burrowing species so it is good to have the substrate as deep as possible so that he can bury himself completely if he wants to.

Oh my goodness, you have the perfect temperature range for Horsfields -- they like to bask in an arrea with a temperature of around 30C in the daytime -- with other areas that are only about 20 or 25C and then a drop in temperature at night to below 20C, but above about 13 or 14C. So your conditions are ideal and I envy you! How cold does it get in the winter in your part of Chile?

The main concern with Horsfields is not to overfeed them. They are very greedy eaters, for a good reason -- in the wild they live in areas that are very cold in the winter, and they hibernate a long time, and it is very hot in the summer and they aestivate (which is like hibernating except in the heat). And it is estimated that they are only awake for three months of the year, and during that time they only feed for a total of about 20 hours! So they are sort of programmed to eat as much as they can in a short period of time.

Of course in captivity with us they have food available all year round and ideal temperatures and they can easily eat too much and grow too quickly and develop shell deformities. The best way to monitor growth is to keep a regular check on his weight. He should be gaining on average about 1g - 3g or 4g per month. This is only an average and some months he will gain more and some less, but it is a guideline. We have a nice little Observations Records booklet where you can keep records of is growth. It is available to download for free here on this page of our website (just click on the link), or we will have printed copies available soon to send out: http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/tort ... measuring/

I had completely forgot about the translation button, so thanks Lin for that! I sympathise with your problems (and that is why Latin names are so useful). My daughter-in-law's mother speaks only French, and we email each other a lot, using Google translate, and sometimes her emails make no sense and I can see that the translation is faulty. I speak a little French, but I can also see that often the French translations that I send her of my English emails are not right so I have to re-word the English to get what I think is a better French translation.

Oh dear, I have gone on for far too long again! Sorry about that (Lin always teases me about my long emails, so I will try to make them shorter in the future)! I have attached a photo of my Doris and Dolly (Horsfields), alongside a little topiary tortoise that I made a few years ago.

Nina
[attachment=0]IMG_5761 [Desktop Resolution].JPG[/attachment]
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IMG_5761 [Desktop Resolution].JPG

asecca
Posts: 22
Joined: 23 Feb 2018, 00:08

Re: doubt about purple clover

Post by asecca » 25 Feb 2018, 16:36

Hello, Beautiful your tortoise and beautiful place !!!
 General condition is not my merit, I have it a week ago, that's why I'm worried about continuing well. Since he comes from abroad, I did not have the opportunity to know his care of the breeder.
In Santiago in winter, the temperature can vary between -3 and 14 ºc, but I live in the department and I will not be able to hibernate for now.


infinite thanks

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