Smashed Egg

Post your pictures and any questions here of European tortoises e.g. Ibera Spur Thigh, Ibera Graeca, Marginated, Hermanns, Kleinmanni and we include the Horsfield tortoise. Also, do add pictures of Mediterranean tortoises you have seen in the wild.
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MiriPiri
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Smashed Egg

Post by MiriPiri » 06 Jun 2022, 16:48

I checked Herbella when I got home from work and found a smashed egg in her enclosure in one of her favourite spots. The shell was white and soft. I’m not sure what size it would have been as it was totally smashed up with white but no yolk that I saw. What’s going on? Has Herbella laid an egg? I’ve just weighed her and she’s lost 50g

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Nina
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Re: Smashed Egg

Post by Nina » 06 Jun 2022, 17:31

Gosh, it's hard to know. If it was out in the open in her enclousre, then I wonder if it could be a bird egg that an animal stole and dropped, but the shell should be hard and not soft. Tortoise egg shells are hard too, and if the shell of this egg was hers and was soft, then you need to up her calcium supplement a lot, as a calcium deficiency will also affect her shell and bones. The only animals I can think of that lay eggs with soft shells are are lizards, snakes and turtles. Do you have a photo of the egg? Tortoise eggs when broken open look just like chicken eggs, but there is more yolk in proportion to white than in a chicken egg. She could of course have eaten the yolk, but that would be a bit odd. I would definitely save what is left of that egg and if you can send us a photo that would be great, and something like a coin next to it so that we can judge the size it was, that might help too.

I was tempted to say that I wonder if it is an egg from some other animal that somehow got into her enclosure, but the fact that she has lost 50g indicates tat it might well be hers (when was the last time you weighed her?). An egg wouldn't weigh 50g,(more like between 15g - 25g), so I wonder if she has dug a nest and laid another one somewhere (eggs will probably weigh around 15g to 25g at most I think). Does she have an area of soft soil to dig in, and is she showing signs of being restless -- pacing up and down, sniffing the soil, etc?

The important thing, if it was her egg, is to get some calcium into her. Does she have a regular calicum supplement like Nutrobal sprinkled on her food, and is there a cuttlefish bone in her enclosure that she can munch on?

It's all very exciting (but maybe a bit worrying too),
Nina


MiriPiri wrote:
> I checked Herbella when I got home from work and found a smashed egg in her
> enclosure in one of her favourite spots. The shell was white and soft. I’m
> not sure what size it would have been as it was totally smashed up with
> white but no yolk that I saw. What’s going on? Has Herbella laid an egg?
> I’ve just weighed her and she’s lost 50g

MiriPiri
Posts: 36
Joined: 05 Feb 2022, 10:23

Re: Smashed Egg

Post by MiriPiri » 06 Jun 2022, 18:49

Hopefully attached is a photo. It’s similar to a soft shelled egg from a hen. I don’t think it was from a newly hatched chick that the parent removed from the nest as there was so much goo.
I can’t find any other eggs and am also not sure if what I found is one or two eggs.

As for calcium, please don’t shout at me, but Herbella has limestone flour for horses in a little dish. I also sprinkle it around her enclosure to feed the plants. She also has cuttlefish inside and out.

I weigh her every weekend, but forgot this weekend so did it today instead. She may have lost weight as I’m trying to improve her diet and she’s being a bit resistant.
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Nina
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Re: Smashed Egg

Post by Nina » 06 Jun 2022, 22:35

This is so interesting -- and of course I wouldn't shout at you! :D

If that is a two pence piece, then can you estimate how long the egg might have been (and I do think you have maybe two eggs there, as there does seem to be a lot of shell). Also, was the goo clear in the way that the white would be if you broke a new egg, or was it starting to go white, like it does when it starts to cook? I know these are strange questions! If it was two eggs, then that would account for the weight loss.

That is great that you have a dish of limestone flour and also cuttlefish. Have you ever seen her eat the limestone flour? Am I right in thinking that you are living in Scotland? if so, then most of Scotland has soft water, which means that there is less calcium in it, compared to the composition of hard water, so I think you should give her extra calcium. My tortoises pretty much ignore cuttlefish (although every now and then they will have a good go at it), so what I do is to wet a nice big leaf and sprinkle lots of ilmestone flour, or pure calcium carbonate powder on it, so that the powder sticks to the leaf, and I hand feed it (sometimes I fold the leaf in half so that the powder doesn't fall off while they are biting it). I was a bit lax last year, as they were outside a lot and i kept forgetting the hand feeding, and one of mine laid an egg that didn't have a soft shell, but the shell was so thin that it broke, so I've been doubling down on the calcium intake ever since.

Also, is your UVB lamp older than two years? If so then it should be changed because the UVB diminishes after a year or two (depending on how much the bulb is used), and without vitamin D3 she won't be able to absorb the calcium in her diet. Because you are so far north (actually all of Britain is too far North, but Scotland is moreso), the quality of Vitamin D3 from the sun will not be adequate, so that is even more reason why, in addition to giving calcium, you need a good UVB lamp and also a Vitiman D3 and calcium supplement like Nutrobal. To give you an idea of what I mean, here is a chart of UVB strength by country -- compare the UK to places like Ethiopia and Kenya, or even Greece and Spain, and you can see how deficient we are. Scientists always say that people in the UK are chronically deficient in Vitamin D because of our climate and northerly position, so humans should take vitamin D supplements too. https://apps.who.int/gho/data/view.main.35300

I'm definitely not criticizing you (I felt awful when my Doris laid that egg with a thin shell, so I am as guilty as anyone. Lol, there is a reason why tortoises aren't indigenous to the UK, so we just need to do the best we can to give them a good life here. I know you've got a really excellent set-up for Herbella, and think that just a few tweaks will solve any small problems that have arisen.

I hope Lin sees your photo, as she might have some good ideas about the egg.

Nina

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lin
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Re: Smashed Egg

Post by lin » 07 Jun 2022, 02:47

Sorry for being so late answering this MiriPiri.
Can I add to Nina’s odd questions and ask if you live in a place where grass snakes are. These look to be a little elongated a bit like a snakes egg but it’s probably a tortoises and just the way it opened.
Is this the first time she has laid eggs?
I have had a tortoise lay a egg that was just the yolk and soft shell. The main thing is that it looks like it has all left her body so I doubt you will have any more problems with future eggs.
Is she with a male? Or is there a male nearby that you know of.
You see, my questions are just as odd as Nina’s, I said they were.

Lin

MiriPiri
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Re: Smashed Egg

Post by MiriPiri » 08 Jun 2022, 17:50

Hi, I love odd questions.

Nina. The goo was completely clear and I think it was possibly 2 eggs. They were in a very odd place, on the grass by the boundary fence that she patrols multiple times a day. Herbella definitely eats the lime flour regularly and chomps on her indoor cuttlefish, but just stamps on the outdoor one 🙄. Her UV lamp was replaced ready for her coming out of hibernation, but she doesn’t have Nutrobal. I don’t think you’re being critical at all. I was expecting you to throw your hands up in horror that I feed her limestone flour! I just did it as it seemed a logical thing to do, but do wonder how much it must dry her mouth out.

Lin. Yes the area is known for grass snakes, but I’m in a pretty built up area so I think it’s unlikely and the fencing would be tricky for them to navigate. She’s never laid an egg before and there’s no torts nearby that I know of unless she’s having secret assignations 😂😂

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Nina
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Re: Smashed Egg

Post by Nina » 08 Jun 2022, 19:13

Limestone flour is perfectly fine. I use pure food grade calcium carbonate powder that I bought on the internet, and it looks just like limestone flour. I don't have mine in a dish because my two would trash the dish and scatter the powder to the winds, so I rely on wetting leaves and sprinkling it on them. You're doing just fine in that respect.

And AHA! I think Lin might have hit on something. If you have grass snakes in the area, and the eggs you found were pretty smashed up, is it possible that a rodent (mouse, rat) or a fox stole the eggs from a grass snake's nest and carried them as far as Herbella's enclosure where they ate/licked most of the contents (which is why there is no yolk), and then just left the remains there?

Nina

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lin
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Re: Smashed Egg

Post by lin » 08 Jun 2022, 19:58

MiriPiri
Do you or a neighbour have a compost heap nearby - odd’er question than usual. :lol:
I can say these eggs are 100% snake eggs, Grass or Adder and the reason is if you look at the smaller parts of the shell they are curling where they are drying out.
When snakes, lizards and even 🐊 eggs hatch they use the egg tooth to cause a split lengthwise down the soft shell. A tortoise would knock around the inside causing a fracture around the circumference and then push apart, much like a chick would do, leaving the edge of the harder shells jagged and uneven.
I agree they wouldn’t have been laid out in the open so somehow they got there, who knows how? But I would say congratulations on becoming a new baby slithery snake parent. 🐍

Lin

MiriPiri
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Re: Smashed Egg

Post by MiriPiri » 09 Jun 2022, 07:46

😂😂Good grief😂😂 There are lots of corvids here so maybe a bird found the snake nest, ate the egg and dropped the shell mid flight? Anyway, alls well, Herbella is fine, but I need to get more weight on her. I’ve got a whole load of plants to put in her enclosure this weekend.

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lin
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Re: Smashed Egg

Post by lin » 09 Jun 2022, 12:00

I have been trying to fathom how or why they would be in the open, and without seeing the area to go through an elimination process it’s a non starter. Were they all over the place or in a small area. I thought bird but don’t know if a bird would take an egg back to an eating post unless it was a bird of prey. Hedgehog. Maybe, again depending on what’s around.
Rat, possible but depends on situation.
Not easy. 😂
Keep us posted on the weight situation MiriPiri, and how it goes.

Lin

MiriPiri
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Joined: 05 Feb 2022, 10:23

Re: Smashed Egg

Post by MiriPiri » 12 Jun 2022, 12:24

Just to let you know she’s put on 30g this week.

louisacharlotte
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Re: Smashed Egg

Post by louisacharlotte » 25 Jul 2022, 15:46

Hi MiriPiri

We have a polecat who leaves egg shells from eggs it has eaten on the lawn, their poo is like hedgehog poo, they are elusive, appearing mostly at night. I only know we had it because my cat was trying to get at it under the wood store and it squeaked and stuck its head out. We also have had grass snakes, I've 'relocated' two in a welly in the past!

Just another possibility.

Louisa.

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