The Tortoise Table

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone had any experience using algal lime powder as a calcium supplement?

In Franziska Biedenweg and Ricarda Schramm’s book on Egyptian tortoises and also on the page below on the related website, they mention its use and in the book have pictures of Egyptian tortoises eating the powder directly from a dish, similar to providing a cuttlefish bone but seemingly more readily eaten , allowing them to self regulate their calcium intake.

https://testudo-kleinmanni.com/For-engl ... y-custody/
That page mentions “pure algal lime  powder without vitamin supplements”.

I think this is the product, a supplement for dogs and cats to lower the Ca-Ph ratio in raw meat as its low in phosphorus.
https://www.canina.de/en/dogs/teeth-ske ... algae-lime

Its quite expensive to import but I cant find a UK equivalent. There is an algae/seaweed based calcium carbonate powder on sale in the Uk seemingly as a soil conditioner or treatment for box hedges. Not sure if this is the same thing and I’d prefer to use something manufactured for animals.

Was wondering if anyone has ever used it or knows of a UK supplier?

Otherwise I’ll bite the bullet on the postage costs on the Canina product and report back.

Thanks
Dave.

This is the mineral spec of that product

Minerals:
34 % calcium, 0.04 % phosphorus, 0.73 % sodium, 2.34 % magnesium, 0.04 % potassium, 20 mg / kg iodine

Hi Dave, nice to hear from you.
I don’t personally but we will have a look around and get back with out findings.
Lin

Hi Dave,

Interesting subject. I had some correspondence a year or so ago with William Espenshade who keeps lots of tortoises in California and runs a place called Kapidolo Farms. Unfortunately you can google Kapidolo Farm and get a link to the website, but then a notice comes up that says ''This website is not available in your country'. Anyway, he has long experience with chelonians and he sells kits that have agar agar, calcium carbonate and then some dried leaves and things, and you mix it, make it into a gel in ice cube trays and then keep it in the fridge and give them to your tortoise. He sent me one of the kits free of charge, but I'm afraid I haven't made it up yet. I know agar agar is from seaweed and isn't quite the same as the algae you are talking about, but it reminded me of it.

I'm afraid I don't know anything about algal lime, and after googling I can see a number of sites that sell it, but all of them seem to be in Germany or somewhere else abroad. You can buy it in the UK here https://www.nexles.com/uk/schacht-ferti ... 75-kg.html but it's shipped in from abroad (the same product is available on Amazon, and also shipped in), and of course shipping charges are not insubstantial. And some sites just say they don't ship to the UK https://www.bloomling.uk/biohelp/algae-lime Also, I would have to check that what these products contain is food grade quality.

I'd be interested to hear what you find out about this and how you get on.

Best ,
Nina

Hi both and thank you Nina for looking into it in depth so quickly. Both those product links, the item seems to be that box shrub treatment I mentioned (only going by the packaging picture) which is available in the UK.

The one I linked is a pet supplement so I might get a small tub of that and take a closer look.

I found another German one last night with recommended measures to mix with meat, it might be handy for use with my box turtles who get fed beef or turkey mince as part of their diet. Its always a bit of guess work as to how much calcium powder balances out the Calcium to phosphorus ratio, this might be a little more scientific.

You know how it goes, pay the import postage and none of them will touch it anyway

Should also say that, the Egyptian tortoise book was originally in German and a few phrases may have got lost in translation. There was a lot of confusion on a US forum around a section of the book about the use of sand mixed with loam as a substrate. Loam equates to a clay powder in this context, bit like those excavator clay substrates you can buy. Maybe its another unusual translation although it does appear to be an actual thing. I might see if I can find a contact address for the authors.

Hope this is ok to do but this is the page from the book.

Looks like this. https://www.schildkroetenshop.de/gshop/ ... ilien.html

I found it on Amazon, just brought the last one

https://www.amazon.co.uk/cdVet-Naturpro ... B005OUMOTQ

5kg should last a while.

[attachment=0]339BF201-5086-4548-B7C1-FF8E596EFB22.jpeg[/attachment]

Think thats a yes then.

Gosh, that's a great result! Thanks for all of the information -- I wonder if it's possible to buy a small amount before investing in such a large tub -- I will have to investigate. This is all really interesting Dave, and thanks for letting us know.

Nina

Looking around for alternatives, I did notice that the algal lime based products for cats and dogs are more of a multi supplement with additional ingredients which might not be as suitable. This is from a product from the same company as the one I got but for cats and dogs:

https://www.algaecal.com/algaecal-ingre ... ae-calcium

Above is a description of algal calcium

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26885697/

A medical study on its long term use in humans


https://www.highernature.com/healthy-bo ... Q1EALw_wcB

An internet search of “algae calcium” returned a lot of results for tablet forms for human consumption. The above seemed the cleanest in that there was no D3 addition. This ones also a capsule so might have loose powder within, save crushing up tablets.

None of the european sites selling calcio reptin seem to do uk shipping, not sure if this is a cost or ingredients issue. Will update this thread if the Amazon site is restocked.

Did find this one which is an algal based powder

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lifestream-100 ... th=1&psc=1

Gosh that article on algal calcium and the study of human consumption were really interesting! I think I might buy some of that for myself (lol, older woman with bone density steadily deteriorating!). The fact that the plant derived calcium is more easily absorbed and utilized compared to calcium derived from rocks is very interesting.

Thanks so much, Dave, for all this information. I'm jetting off tomorrow to Morocco for a couple of weeks (grandchildren living there now), but when i return I will definitely look into this and get some for my torts and for me too!

Cheers,
Nina