New Herman today

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Mabel123
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Joined: 14 Apr 2018, 21:38

New Herman today

Post by Mabel123 » 14 Apr 2018, 21:45

Hi,
I got my first Herman tortoise today. She is 7 months old and was bought from a breeder.
I bought her home and she went into her hide. She has been out for a wander twice but hasn't eaten anything. I have put out dandelions and a few slithers of cucumber.
Should she have eaten by now?

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Nina
Posts: 2003
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:22

Re: New Herman today

Post by Nina » 14 Apr 2018, 22:30

Hi Mabel and congratulations on getting your little Hermann's tortoise! I think she is just settling in and wouldn't worry at all about her not eating yet. The fact that she has been out for a wander is great. What are the temperatures you are getting at the hot end of your enclosure and at the cool end? Tortoises are very sensitive to temperatures and you want to aim for a temp of around 30C (not much higher) measured directly under her heat source and at the height of her shell, and around 20C at the cool end (I'm assuming that she is in a tortoise table -- is that right)?

I'm sure that she will gradually feel more at home and will start eating soon. Tortoises can go a very long time without eating, but they do need to be well hydrated, so give her a bath for 15 - 20 minutes every couple of days, in warm water up to where her top shell meets her bottom shell, in a container that she can't see out of (like an old washing up bowl). The added benefit of that is that they usually poo and wee in the bath, which means there is less cleaning up to do in the enclosure.

Let us know how you get on, and if she still isn't eating after three or four days let us know -- and maybe send us a photo of your set-up if you can, as sometimes just a small tweak in the set-up does the trick.

Nina

Mabel123
Posts: 6
Joined: 14 Apr 2018, 21:38

Re: New Herman today

Post by Mabel123 » 14 Apr 2018, 23:38

Thanks that's great, really helpful.

Under the lamp it's around 30/32
Away from the lamp it's 22/23

I'll give her a bath tomorrow to make sure she is hydrated and let you know if she eats!

Thanks again.

Mabel123
Posts: 6
Joined: 14 Apr 2018, 21:38

Re: New Herman today

Post by Mabel123 » 15 Apr 2018, 22:36

Hi Nina,

So today Mabel has been out lots exploring. She had a bath a I think pooed. White stuff came out....

She still hasn't easten though. Do you still think she is settling in?

At the moment she has wood pellet substrate as that is what she had where she came from but I'm wondering if it should be topsoil?

I'm worried because this is all new and I don't want to do anything wrong.

I've uploaded a picture of her environment.

Thanks

Louise[attachment=0]IMG_0356.JPG[/attachment]
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Mabel's home

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Nina
Posts: 2003
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:22

Re: New Herman today

Post by Nina » 16 Apr 2018, 09:49

Hi Louise,

I think Mabel's enclosure is really nice -- and those big pebbles you've got in the middle provide interest, something to climb over, and they help to break up the sightlines (if tortoises can see from one end of their enclosure to the other without interruption then they get a bit bored). And I like the fact that her house/sleeping area doesn't take up a whole end of the table -- tortoises actually prefer a small sleeping space, and in a lot of tables the larger sleeping space is wasted.

The white stuff is called urates and it's perfectly normal. It's also a good indication of how hydrated they are -- if it is really watery like eggwhites then they are really well hydrated, if it's soft like toothpaste then they are hydrated, but if it is sandy or gritty then it means they are dehydrated and they need more baths.

The one thing I would change is the wood chips. They really aren't great at all (think of where in the wild they would be living on wood chips). A mixture of topsoil and playsand much more approximates what they live on in the wild, you can spray it every day or two, to keep it from getting dusty and get a nice level of humidity, and they can happily dig down in it. You can buy bags of sterilised topsoil and playsand at garden centres and places like Homebase, Wickes and B&Q, and just mix them together about 50/50 (or mine prefer a bit higher ratio of topsoil to sand so I mix mine about 60/40.

Can I ask what source you are using for UVB? If your lamp is a mercury vapour one that provides heat, light and UVB, then I'm a bit worried as in the photo it looks like it is not hanging vertically, but is on a slant. There is nothing wrong with that in theory, but in practice those lamps tend to blow if they are not hanging vertically. If you are using a separate source for UVB, like a UVB fluorescent tube then it's fine to hang the heat/light lamp on a slant.

You probably already have one, but in case you don't, here is a link to a good care sheet for Hermanns (just click on the link to the care sheet in the middle of the text on that page: https://www.tortoise-protection-group.o ... nns_88.asp

LOL, it's good that you are worried, because that means you care! But don't worry too much because as far as I can see you are doing almost everything right, and Mabel is going to have a good life with you.

I think Mabel is a lovely little Hermanns, and it looks to me like she is lucky to have found a home with you!

Nina

Mabel123
Posts: 6
Joined: 14 Apr 2018, 21:38

Re: New Herman today

Post by Mabel123 » 16 Apr 2018, 19:05

Hi Nina,
Thank you so much. You have been so helpful.

It is interesting you mentioned the chips. I wasn't keen but the breeder said it was what I needed.
I will be changing to topsoil sand mix. Do they end up with sand in their little eyes?

My lamp does go at an angle, I will look at changing that.

Mabel has been chomping on spring greens and curly kale today so has found her appetite. That has relieved me!

Thank you again we are grateful for your help.

Louise
Xx

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Nina
Posts: 2003
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:22

Re: New Herman today

Post by Nina » 16 Apr 2018, 21:17

That is great that Mabel is eating -- she's obviously happy in her new home.

To keep the sand/soil mix from getting dusty and in Mabel's eyes, you can spray it every day or two, or pour a bit of water on the substrate and mix it up well. What you want is for it to be the teeny tiniest bit damp, but in no way wet. In the wild they live on a very sandy substrate, and they do fine. I can show you some photos of Hermanns in their natural habitat in Spain, if you like, and it looks super sandy -- much sandier than what I'm recommending. I've never heard before of a breeder recommending wood chips. I think in general we always try and reproduce as much as we can the sort of environment that they thrive on in the wild, and wood chips don't really figure in that -- plus they are drying, and maybe a bit harder to spot clean (I don't know). The sand/soil substrate is easy to spot clean because it just clumps together with the wee and you can easily remove the clump of wet soil.

Just to check -- is that a UVB bulb in that lamp or a heat and light bulb without UVB? If it isn't a UVB bulb then hanging at an angle doesn't matter.

Take care, and don't hesitate to contact us if you have any more questions.

Nina

Mabel123
Posts: 6
Joined: 14 Apr 2018, 21:38

Re: New Herman today

Post by Mabel123 » 16 Apr 2018, 23:03

Hi,

It's uvb/uva and heat.

I'm experimenting with different angles. That and switching substrate. :)

I will send you an updated pic.

Louise

Mabel123
Posts: 6
Joined: 14 Apr 2018, 21:38

Re: New Herman today

Post by Mabel123 » 22 Apr 2018, 12:49

Hi Nina,

I've tried changing the lamp but it's not getting flatter.

However Mabel has new substrate and is loving it. Thank you so much for giving me such good advice.

Can I ask one thing... she doesn't seem to like dandelions.... is she the only tortoise in the world who isn't keen on these. She likes clover and watercress the best at the moment.

I've attached a picture of her new home. I got her a bridge so she can climb and she loves o burrow underneath as well.

Hope you and your tortoises are well.

Louise and Mabel. [attachment=0]IMG_0364.JPG[/attachment]
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IMG_0364.JPG

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Nina
Posts: 2003
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:22

Re: New Herman today

Post by Nina » 22 Apr 2018, 16:01

Hi Louise,

Well, if the lamp hasn't blown and you are getting right temperature at the height of Mabel's shell, then I guess it's OK. What a lot of people do is fix and 'L'-shaped arm to the table, so there is an upright piece and then a piece that extend directly over the table, and the lamp is hung from that, but if you're not having problems then it should be fine.

I think your table is lookingreally excellent! I'm so glad that Mabel appreciates the soil (it's much more natural than wood chips). I have a couple of those bendy log thingys in my table and they do like climbing over them as well as digging under and sleeping in them too -- so well done for all the improvements!

I am in the middle now of contacting the Guinness Book of Records because Mabel is indeed the only tortoise in the world who doesn't like dandelions, and that preference should be recorded and acknowledged for all to see! :D Seriously, they are funny creatures. My Doris loves the long narrow-leaved plantain but won't touch the round leaf one. It's not like dandleions are an essential food, and they probably shouldn't be fed in excess anyway, so as long as she will eat other stuff that is fine.

The trick is to try and give her the most varied diet you can. In the wild they eat about 200 different species of plants. Do you have any of that low growing campanula in your garden, or winter flowering pansies? Plantain is coming up all over now, as are lots of other good foods, so do try and get her to eat different plants. The way to do it is to cut the food she likes up into teen tiny pieces, and then cut a small portion of the new food up into teeny tiny pieces, wet them all so the bits stick together and then when she goes for something she likes she will also get some of the new food. At first the new food is only a tiny percentage of the mix, but then you gradually increase it and decrease the old food and voila! you've tricked her into eating something she never liked before. Have you tried dandelion flowers (there are loads around now) as well as the leaves?

Have a go and let us know how it turns out.

Nina

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