Arum maculatum - a small nibble!

Use this forum to discuss general questions about any aspects of tortoise care.
Post Reply
Heather
Posts: 72
Joined: 11 Jun 2017, 16:23

Arum maculatum - a small nibble!

Post by Heather » 24 Mar 2018, 11:14

Hi - OK, I know! I WILL dig them up later, but Achillea has never looked twice at them, & I just popped her outside the door where she was 'scrabbling' to go out, & a few minutes later saw her take a nibble. I'm guessing that this won't be a serious issue? Should I worry?

Heather

User avatar
lin
Posts: 1034
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:27

Re: Arum maculatum - a small nibble!

Post by lin » 24 Mar 2018, 21:11

Hi Heather. So sorry for the delay but I have had family here today so not had time to answer.

I guess the same as you in saying if it were such a little nibble it will just pass through but to be on the safe side I would bathe her more frequent than you usually do for a day or so and keep an eye on her. If you feel there is any change in her behavior then take her to a reptile vet that specalises in tortoises.

This does go to show that a tortoise will indeed eat things that are not good for them and puts paid to the theory that they will not eat anything that isnt good that we often hear.

Keep us posted Heather and keeping my fingers crossed.

Lin

User avatar
Nina
Posts: 2003
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:22

Re: Arum maculatum - a small nibble!

Post by Nina » 25 Mar 2018, 10:14

I think she will be fine. It's calcium oxalate raphides (needle shaped crystals) that are the damaging property -- not poisonous, but can cause bad irritation to the throat and stomach if ingested, and I think that if they had damaged her you would have noticed already. So a nibble should be OK, but you are right to remove them from anywhere she might find them -- and I agree with Lin that it just goes to show that tortoises don't somehow magically know if a plant is bad for them -- especially if it is a plant that wouldn't grow in their native territory in the wild.

Nina

Heather
Posts: 72
Joined: 11 Jun 2017, 16:23

Re: Arum maculatum - a small nibble!

Post by Heather » 25 Mar 2018, 19:20

Thank you both. She's fine in herself, charging about as usual, eating as usual, etc.

I have a theory.....these are very new leaves. Surely, this type of substance builds up over time as the leaves mature, so that very young leaves will have a very low level of the oxalate, if any? Might this be why Achillea nibbled an otherwise unsavoury leaf??

Heather

User avatar
Nina
Posts: 2003
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:22

Re: Arum maculatum - a small nibble!

Post by Nina » 25 Mar 2018, 19:59

Well, you could be right, but I'm not sure. I've looked at several articles in scientific journals this evening about the development of raphides and although I can't be positive, I think that the crystals are present in young leaves in a similar distribution to older leaves (but of course older leaves are likely to be larger and therefore have more of them). As I say, I can't be absolutely sure, but I don't know how a tortoise would know that a leaf has calcium oxalate raphides, or even a toxic substance by just looking at it -- what about it would tell them that it was safe or unsafe to eat. Some properites, like tannins, impart a bitter taste, so after a nibble or two a tortoise probably wouldn't want any more, but most toxic or harmful substances don't give any warning.

Nina

Heather
Posts: 72
Joined: 11 Jun 2017, 16:23

Re: Arum maculatum - a small nibble!

Post by Heather » 26 Mar 2018, 16:25

Crikey - I'd never heard of raphides before. I've now done a bit of reading & realise their mode of action. I had no idea. Fascinating (or horrifying...)!

I have often wondered how animals tend to avoid poisonous plants. Sometimes smell I guess. Sometime instinct?...Then sometimes not.

Heather

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests