Vet update.

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beeclaire80
Posts: 80
Joined: 22 Sep 2020, 17:10

Vet update.

Post by beeclaire80 » 24 Nov 2020, 20:48

Hi,

So we saw the vet for his Protozoa count and nasal bubbles. The vet is not an exotic specialist but has an interest in exotics and would like to specialise, he also has his own tortoises.

If you remember from my earlier posts, the vet questioned his shell formation and was querying MBD as he thought his shell was a little “flat”

We’ve had a check up today following his course of antibiotics and the vet is still concerned about MBD. He recommended we come back for bloods to get a base line. He said there is no treatment as such but we would need 6 monthly bloods to check kidney function etc. I’m not convinced.

He also said to only supplement Vit D once per week (currently we do nutrobal mon/wed/Fri with calcium Sat/Sun/tue/thur). He said calcium daily (liquid if he won’t take powder).

I have come away without booking the appointment as at this point I feel it’s unnecessary (happy to be proven wrong though!). Having discussed with hubby we have said we will seek a second opinion at a specialist vet, after Christmas, if we need to.

Please share your thoughts with me and I’m happy to take on board suggestions.

Just to add, we have daily passing of urine and poo, he’s had a good weight gain and has grown in length.
19-9-20 - 47g 6.1cm
21-11-20 - 62g 6.5cm
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Nina
Posts: 2003
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:22

Re: Vet update.

Post by Nina » 24 Nov 2020, 22:58

Hi Claire,

I've talked to Lin about this and we both agree that you don't need to make an appointment with this vet, and it might be better to make an appt. with a specialist after Christmas -- but first see how he gets on.

We certainly think that six-month bloods to test kidney function is unnecessary. How are his rear legs when he is walking? Does he drag them at all? I only ask because that is a sign of kidney damage -- but it doesn't show until the damage is fairly severe. As he is weeing and pooing well and putting on weight I would just continue to observe him (although don't let him gain weight too fast -- I would aim for no more than 4g per month, as gaining weight too fast can also result in shell damage and lead to MBD). He might have MBD or he might not -- but he is very young, and you can certainly ensure that his current and future shell growth is healthy.

An area where we do disagree with your vet is regarding the Vitamin D supplement. Did he say why you should only supplement with Nutrobal once a week? Here is an article from The Tortoise Trust on calcium and vitamin D supplementation. https://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/calcium.htm It's good reading, but not especially the paragraph about three-quarters of the way down that starts 'As a general rule if you live in an area where tortoises and turtles occur naturally . . .'
We live too far North for tortoises to get the best quality of UVB from the sun, and of course they aren't outdoors at all this time of year.

We rely on our UVB lamps to stimulate their skin to produce vitamin D3 (it's the same for humans, and we now know that most people in Britain are chronically deficient in Vitamin D3 from birth and should take supplements). These lamps aren't good but not perfect. How old is your UVB lamp? A tortoise -- especially a young one -- needs Vitamin D3 in order to absorb and utilise the calcium in his diet. So I think it is essential that you continue with providing Nutrobal 3 times a week to give that extra vitamin D, and calcium powder on the other days. The Nutrobal dose is very small (I think they say one pinch per kilo of tortoise -- which is ridiculous with a small tortoise), but it is also fairly difficult to overdose on Nutrobal so you should be fine.

So we think your instincts are right, and you should just keep doing what you are doing. He's had a difficult start in life, but under your good care he should improve and thrive. If you have any concerns, it is a good idea to consult a specialist after Christmas, but see how it goes.

Nina

beeclaire80
Posts: 80
Joined: 22 Sep 2020, 17:10

Re: Vet update.

Post by beeclaire80 » 25 Nov 2020, 07:16

Hi Nina,

He walks tall and proud, if that makes sense. When he was showing signs of the respiratory infection he was a little more sluggish. But since his course of antibiotics he is like a different boy (or girl!). I’ve even caught sight of him sprinting across his table when he’s noticed I’ve popped a dandelion flower on his slate. :lol: His plastron is clear of the ground and his legs are upright. I’ll try and get a video and send it across.

We had no weight gain for the first 6 weeks, then once the antibiotics started and he got his appetite and energy back he seemed to have a massive gain, I am being mindful of this and trying to keep it slow and steady. I feed him in the morning, at around 9am and then he looks for food again at around 4pm. I’ve cut down what I put out in the morning, because he wasn’t finishing it all at that point but would then nibble during the day so I’ve reduced that portion and if I am able to (due to work commitments) I then remove anything he has left by lunch time. He then gets a small amount at about 4pm. The 4pm portion tends to be a nice plantain or sow thistle leaf.

The vet said there was no scientific proof that a Vit-d supplement did anything and in fact too much could damage his organs. He said that with good UV he’ll be fine. He did talk about Spain a lot as this is where he himself originates from, I did remind him that the weather is very different in the UK and we really don’t get as much natural UV as we should.
Thank you for the link to the Tortoise Trust, I have bookmarked it, funnily enough I showed him that information and left the link with him to have a look at. :lol:

I’ve recently upgraded my combi bulb to a 100w one as my 80w wasn’t maintaining a good basking temp now the weather has changed. I had the 80w in September this year and obviously have just had the 100w. The plan is to switch to separate bulbs when we upgrade his table to a larger one.

One question I forgot to ask in my original post, the vet said that now he’s had one RI he’ll be far more prone to getting more in the future. Is there any scientific proof of this? I would like to research myself as well.

He really has had a rough start, but I’m confident he’s living a better life with me than where he came from!

Thanks as ever for the wonderful advice.
Claire.

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