rocko's hibernation weight loss

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rockosmum
Posts: 1
Joined: 03 Nov 2017, 00:32

rocko's hibernation weight loss

Post by rockosmum » 03 Nov 2017, 00:51

Hello dear tortoise supporters:

Hi to all--it has been so long since I have posted as all has been going
well with Rocko, my (*approximately) 50 year old Horsefield. I have had
Rocko for about 20 years. I have hibernated successfully suring this
time following tortoise trust and tortoise friend's guidelines which I
have studied quite extensively. I originally posted this questions to Lisa's
old list, but received a kindly reply from someone that the list might be not
as active at this time as previously. When I asked for a forum he again kindly replied
with reference to this list, so here I am! I do remember Lin as the plant expert, also
some other names I see (Nina? Did you live in Florida?) At any rate all has been
going so well for Rocko for many years, I have hibernated him with absolutely no issues
and he has thrived. But now a concern has arisen, so I seek guidance from experts about
his weight loss 10 days into hibernation, double what it has been in all previous years.
Here is the background: Please bear with me as I wanted you all to have as much info
as possible.

Rocko's pattern is to to stop eating mid August or so. This year he
stopped a bit earlier. His last meal was dandilion, scan amount, July 23.
Due to moving, divorce, getting resettled etc
this year I had to get a new chiller, wine chiller, which is holding his
body temperature at 38 degrees F. . I do have the water saucer in
place. My ex took Rocko's Sanyo larder for his beer, necessitating a
new accomodation for Rocko. I have cycled through a Danby compact (got
too cold, even with no freezer compartment) and a compact Galanz from
Walmart, which formed frost in the back, which frightened me. Mon Dieu!

Rocko did not go in until October 20th due to the new refrigerator I
began setting up, testing, etc showed ice formation on the back and I
could not keep the temperatures at the required so I had to purchase a
new one and decided to go for the wine chiller to ensure freezing would
not be an issue. --its lowest temp range per specifications is 40% F.
(4.5 celcius if my conversion chart is correct)

Two things were different this year. #1 he had a longer fasting period.
He stopped passing urates early in wind-down, (first week of August, but because of the
refrigerator snafu, I had to put him in later (usually he goes in
beginning of Oct). I soaked him daily and he continued to drink,
certainly acted normally but would not eat. He maintained weight well
during the approximately 2.5 month wind-down and his going in weight was
1215 grams. His weight today, 10 days later is 1190. #2 difference is
that he seems to be moving around more in the chiller--which is one
reason I waited for the first weight--I wanted him to settle in a bit more.

So this weight loss represents 24.3 grams, double what he should loose
the first month, and he has only been in ten days! So I am quite
concerned. I put him back in and decided to consult my dear tortoise
friends.

I think so fondly of the TF list, of all the wonderful information
provided and its benefit to tortoises. As I move on in years (but looking
at Rocko, I feel so young!) and continue to care
for Rocko and I have kept him by all TF principles and guidelines, which have served
Rocko and I so well, yet here we are and I am somewhat flummoxed!

I was hoping someone with experience-- and I know there are many of
you--could provide guidance. The crux of the matter is that this year,
for the first year ever, he has lost double the weight loss documented
for all previous years. Last year for instance he lost 10 grams after
two weeks,and this year 24 grams after 10 days!

I plan to weigh him again in 7 days, which would be approximately 3
weeks from going in date, 1 week after the very first hibernation weight
at 10 days. If weight is holding, fine. But what guidelines should I
follow for taking him out? How much additional weight loss should I
allow before removing him from hibernation, and in what period of
time? I thank you all so much for any information or opinions you
might offer, and Rocko thanks you, too! Kindest Regards, Linda

Heather
Posts: 72
Joined: 11 Jun 2017, 16:23

Re: rocko's hibernation weight loss

Post by Heather » 17 Nov 2017, 09:26

Hi Linda - I have absolutely no expertise, but I'm surprised that no one else has replied...so I'm replying to ping it to the top of the list again. I hope Rocko is OK.

Heather

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Nina
Posts: 2003
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:22

Re: rocko's hibernation weight loss

Post by Nina » 17 Nov 2017, 11:04

Hi Linda -- and it's great to hear from you! I remember you and Rocko so well from the TF forum, and it is good to hear that Rocko is still doing well (even if he is determined to stress you out).

The standard rule of thumb is that tortoises can lose up to 10% of their body weight in hibernation (and I am not sure but I think that includes the wind down period as well). This means that theoretically Rocko would be allowed to lose 121g (and he has only lost a fraction of that), but I think I wouldn't let a tortoise lose as much as 10% (just my preference). I do think 2.5 months is probably too long for winding down, but as long as Rocko was well hydrated (which it sounds like he was) then I guess it's OK.

Regarding the temperature -- 38F is a tiny bit on the cool side, but should be OK, as long as it doesn't drop lower. 38F = 3.3C and we usually say that the ideal temperature is 5C = 41F. 3.3F doesn't present any problem at all, as long as you thermometer is correct, so I wouldn't worry, especially as it is known that Horsfields can take lower temperatures than other tortoises in hibernation. Also, the small drops of ice on the back of a normal fridge (without a freezing compartment) are scary, but no problem as long as the temperture in the tortoise's box is OK. My fridge gets small droplets of ice on the back occasionally, but the temperature in the tortoises' boxes don't fall below about 37F or 38F (but it is scary to see the ice!).

Regarding the weight loss -- do you think it is possible that Rocko has had a wee in the fridge? Have you checked to see if there is unusual dampness or liquid in the bottom of his box (or underneath him if he isn't in a box)? If he has had a wee then you need to wake him up, as he will be in danger of dehydrating, but if not then I think I would just monitor him over the next couple of weeks and if his weight stabilizes or is minimal I don't think there is any problem at all, as he hasn't really lost that much considering how much he weighed to start with.

Speaking of panics, I am in a major one today as one of my two Horsfields lost over 40g in the bath this morning. It is the end of winding down and she should go in the fridge in four days, and I can't believe that figure is right! Dolly was 633g just before going into the bath and 587g after. She did have a wee in the bath and some very small urates, but I think it is impossible to lose that much and don't know what to do! I thought it could be the battery in the scales (except that the weight of my other tortoise was fine and in keeping with the rest of her weights during the wind down period), but I changed the battery anyway and Dolly's weight was exactly the same at 587g. How could she lose 46g in the bath? If I didn't have another tortoise that was weighed before and after the bath I would think it was the scales malfunctioning, but the weight of the other tortoise (Doris) is absolutely fine and no anomalies. I feel like screaming!

I am sorry to hear that there has been such upheaval in your life, but it is so good to know that you and Rocko is still together and I'm sure he will have a good hibernation and come out of it with renewed vigour!

Warmest wishes,
Nina

User avatar
Nina
Posts: 2003
Joined: 16 Mar 2017, 11:22

Re: rocko's hibernation weight loss

Post by Nina » 17 Nov 2017, 12:42

Hi Linda,
Me again! I've just posted you a private message. Here is the text of it, just in case it doesn't arrive, and I am so, so sorry that we weren't notified of your post when it came in! The only other thing I can think of is that the date on your message is wrong for some reason, and it actually did come in this morning -- so please let me know. Here is what I wrote:

Hi Linda,
Something has gone seriously wrong with our notification system. I never got notified of your post about Rocko, and neither did Lin. The date on your post is November 3rd -- is that really when you posted your message, or is the date on the message wrong? Heather posted a short reply to you this morning and I got notified of that and when I went to post I just saw the time on your message (just after midnight our time), and didn't bother to look at the date, but Lin has just told me that it says November 3rd! I am so sorry and hope that all is well with you and Rocko! And we will look into why were weren't notified of your post. Anyway here is a link to your thread with my response:
http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/site ... f=12&t=202

Nina xxxx

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